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ArcusCalion 09-12-2017 12:42 PM

Of the Founding of Nargothrond and Gondolin
This is the first draft of the chapter Of the Founding of Nargothrond and Gondolin.

Our basis text is that of the Later Quenta Silmarillion given in HoME 11; page 177-180. Wherever the text is different from that this is marked by an editing mark.

The markings are:
NG-EX-xx for tracking the changes from QS to LQ2 (I did not bother with LQ1) as well as additions from the Grey Annals.

Some conventions of my writing:
Normal Text is from the basic text that is mentioned above (when I change the basic-Text it will be mentioned)
Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks
{example} = text that should be deleted
[example] = normalised text, normally only used for general changes
<source example> = additions with source information
...... = This section of the paragraph is unchanged from the source.

In LQ2 there were several names that were corrected to their final forms in the text, and these I have not commented on, as it seemed needlessly cumbersome. The names I have not marked are:
Inglor > Finrod; Bladorion > Ard-galen; Gnomes > Noldor; Glomund > Glaurung; Nivrost > Nevrast; Finrod > Finarfin



§100. But on a time Turgon left Nevrast where he dwelt and went to visit Finrod his friend, and they journeyed southward along Sirion, ....... But unquiet was upon them ever after and doubt of what should befall, and they wandered often alone in NG-EX-02 <LQ1 {unexplored country}[untrodden lands]>, seeking far and wide for places of hidden strength; for it seemed to each that he was bidden to prepare for a day of evil, and to establish a retreat, lest Morgoth should burst from Angband and overthrow the armies of the North.
NG-EX-03 <LQ2 {§101. Thus it came to pass that Inglor found the deep gorge of Narog and the caves in its western side; and he built their a stronghold and armories after the fashion of the deep mansions of Menegroth. And he called this place Nargothrond, and made there his home with many of his folk; and the Gnomes of the North, at first in merriment, called him on this account Felagund, or Lord of Caverns, and that name he bore thereafter until his end. But Turgon went alone into hidden places, and by the guidance of Ulmo found the secret vale of Gondolin; and of this he said naught as yet, but returned to Nivrost and his folk.} And it came to pass that Finrod and {Galaðriel}[Galadriel] were on a time the guests of Thingol and Melian; for there was friendship between the lord of Doriath and the House of Finarfin that were his kin, and the princes of that house alone were suffered to pass the girdle of Melian. ...... And he called that place Nargothrond, and made there his home with many of his folk; and the Gnomes of the North, at first in jest, called him on this account Felagund, NG-EX-04 <LQ2 [Footnote: This was in fact a {Dwarfish}[Dwarvish] name; for Nargothrond was first made by the Dwarves, as is later recounted.]> or 'lord of caverns’, and that name he bore thereafter until his end. Yet Galadriel his sister dwelt never in Nargothrond, but remained in Doriath and received the love of Melian, and abode with her, and there learned great lore and wisdom concerning Middle-earth.> NG-EX-05 <LQ2 Now Turgon remembered rather the City set upon a Hill, Tirion the fair with its Tower and Tree, and he found not what he sought, and returned to Nevrast, and sat at peace in Vinyamar by the shore. There after three years Ulmo himself appeared to him, and bade him go forth again alone to the Vale of Sirion; and Turgon went forth and by the guidance of Ulmo he discovered the hidden vale of Tumladen in the encircling mountains, in the midst of which there was a hill of stone. Of this he spoke to none as yet, but returned to Nevrast, and there began in his secret counsels to devise the plan of a fair city NG-EX-06{[struck out:)} a memorial of Tirion upon Tuna for which his heart still yearned in exile[.]{, and though he pondered much in thought he]}>

NG-EX-07 <LQ2 Of the Dagor Aglareb>

§102. And even while Turgon and Felagund were wandering abroad, Morgoth seeing that many Noldor were dispersed over the land made trial of their strength and watchfulness. He shook the North with ...... for there is a gap in that region between the hills of {Maidros}[Maedhros] and the outliers of NG-EX-08 <LQ2 Ered Luin,> the Blue Mountains. But Fingolfin and {Maidros}[Maedhros] gathered ....... This was the NG-EX-09 <LQ2 {second}[third]> great battle of these wars and was named Dagor Aglareb, ....... , and set such watch upon Angband that Fingolfin boasted NG-EX-10 <GA 60 that (save by treason among themselves)> Morgoth could never again escape nor come upon them unawares.
§ 103. Yet the Noldor could not capture Angband, ....... When nearly a hundred years had run since the {Second}[Third] Battle, he sent forth an army ...... , and only part of the folk of Hithlum fought there.
§104. Again after a hundred years Glaurung, ...... . But they had not seen the last of Glaurung.
NG-EX-01: This heading was inserted as a separate chapter to LQ2.
NG-EX-02: change in LQ.
NG-EX-03: This paragraph was replaced with the following.
NG-EX-04: This footnote was inserted. I cannot remember if this is in fact 'later recounted.' Is this brought up at all in the Tale of Turin? The name Nulukkhizidun as well, was that used then?
NG-EX-05: This was inserted.
NG-EX-06: I have retained the most of the struck out note, simply because the sentence in the Grey Annals is nearly identical, and there is no replacement.
NG-EX-07: This subheading was inserted along with the chapter heading.
NG-EX-08: This was inserted.
NG-EX-09: This was changed in LQ2.
NG-EX-10: This was the only difference between the Grey Annals and QS account, so I added it.

This section was exceedingly straightforward. So much so, in fact, that I feel I must have missed some other source of information. If anyone knows of any additions they think appropriate please help me out lol.

Findegil 09-26-2017 01:53 PM

I agree that this is a straight forward chapter. Nontheless I have a few remarks:

NG-EX-04: The name Nulukikhizidun is used in our Version in some form, but the story is not told in the way it should. The source I would recommend for this is HoMe 12; The Dwarvish origin of the name Felagund. And I think we have to incoperate it here in a way:

And he called that place Nargothrond, and made there his home with many of his folk; and the {Gnomes}[Elves] of the North, at first in jest, called him on this account Felagund, NG-EX-04 <LQ2 [Footnote ot the text: This was in fact a {Dwarfish}[Dwarvish] name; for Nargothrond was first made by the Dwarves, as is NG-EX-04.1{later}[here after] recounted. NG-EX-04.2<HoMe 12; The Dwarvish origin of the name Felagund Felagund: Dwarvish NG-EX-04.3{v}[verb] felek hew rock, felak a tool like a broad-bladed chisel, or small axe-head without haft, for cutting stone; to use this tool. {v}[verb] gunud equivalent of Eldarin s-rot NG-EX-04.4{[Footnote to the text: [Elsewhere in these notes. For the stem rot, s-rot is given the meaning 'delve underground, excavate, tunnel', whence Quenya hrota 'dwelling underground, artificial cave or rockhewn hall', rotto 'a small grot or tunnel'.{]} gundu underground hall. felakgundu, felaggundu 'cave-hewer'. This name was given because of Finrod's skill in lighter stone-carving. He cut many of the adornments of the pillars and walls in Nargothrond. He was proud of the name. But it was often by others Eldarized into Felagon, as if it had the same ending (*-kano) as in Fingon, Turgon; and the first element was associated with Sindarin fael 'fair-minded, just, generous', Quenya faila (NG-EX-04.5{?} from {v }phaya 'spirit', adjectival formation meaning 'having a good fea, or a dominant fea').]> or 'lord of caverns’, and that name he bore thereafter until his end. NG-EX-04.6 < HoMe 12; The Dwarvish origin of the name Felagund The name Felagund was of Dwarvish origin. Finrod had help of Dwarves in extending the underground fortress of Nargothrond. It is supposed originally to have been a hall of the Petty-dwarves (NG-EX-04.7{Nibinnogs}[Noegyth Nibin]), but the Great Dwarves despised these, and had no compunction in ousting them NG-EX-04.8{ - hence Mîm's special hatred for the Elves -} especially for great reward. Finrod had brought more treasure out of Tuna than any of the other princes.
>Yet Galadriel his sister dwelt NG-EX-04.9{never}[not] in Nargothrond, but remained in Doriath and received the love of Melian, and abode with her, and there learned great lore and wisdom concerning Middle-earth.> NG-EX-05 <LQ2 Now Turgon remembered rather the City set upon a Hill, …
NG-EX-04.1: This has to be changed because we tell that story right after.

NG-EX-04.2: I added the linguistical part of this note into the footnote to the name.

NG-EX-04.3: I think we should extant Tolkiens short hand.

NG-EX-04.4: Since we are already in a footnote there is no way to put that as a note referring to a note, so we have to put it as a normal text of the footnote.

NG-EX-04.5: The ‘?’ seems to refer to the fact that phaya is not a verb. So I removed both.

NG-EX-04.6: Here I added the first part of the note, that has a more prose character.

NG-EX-04.7: A simple update of the name.

NG-EX-04.8: I think this forward reference has to go.

NG-EX-04.9: I think we discussed this in another thread. It is later told that Galadriel lifed for a time in Nargothrond, so here never is too broad in reference.


ArcusCalion 09-26-2017 05:06 PM

These all look great! The last one about Galadriel never being in Nargothrond, I actually meant to change it, but in the process of compiling the draft it slipped my mind, thank you for catching it!

ArcusCalion 12-05-2017 11:22 AM

In the Athrabeth and in the published Sil77, Finrod dwells in Minas Tirith until the Dagor Bragollach, when he removes to Nargothrond. Are we taking this as the final version? Or leaving it the way it is. I am inclined to leave it the way it is, since it makes more sense logistically for Finrod to make a whole city and then live there, as is said several times in the narrative.

Tyr 12-08-2017 03:19 PM


Originally Posted by Findegil (Post 708960)
NG-EX-04.3: I think we should extant Tolkiens short hand.

NG-EX-04.5: The ‘?’ seems to refer to the fact that phaya is not a verb. So I removed both.

Hi all; the v being interpreted as shorthand is actually the radical symbol √. :)

ArcusCalion 12-08-2017 06:41 PM

omg good catch Tyr!! Tolkien also used * as a root marker in later writings, so I'll change it to that.

Findegil 12-09-2017 08:38 AM

Good catch Tyr! I worked only from a scan and never checked the original text. So we can either let the sign stand or change it to 'root'. So I am inclinde to let it stand in this footnote.

ArcusCalion, the * [asterix] form is not really the same as a √ (even so in an artificial language the difference is only a fancy of the author): a √ is found in the recorded past of a language while the * form is only reconstructed by the 'loremasters'.


ArcusCalion 12-09-2017 10:46 AM

Fin, this is true but in Q&E the form, for example, *KWENE is used for roots. In the Shibboleth notes on the sons of Feanor, the roots are simply capitalized, like PHIN. However, in Words, Phrases, and Passages, the roots are written with the radical, but the same roots are repeated in Q&E (a later document) with the asterisk, alongside reconstructed forms by loremasters also using an asterisk. Therefore it seems the published texts are inconsistent on the formation of these roots. We should standardize them. As you say, the asterisk is already used for the reconstructed forms, so perhaps we should go with the radical. If that is the case, then I think we need to standardize it across all documents, from the Shibboleth name notes to the Q&E material to the notes on PHAN and the Osanwe. In addition, in every other setting the roots are capitalized, so should we do that here with these two?

Findegil 12-09-2017 05:30 PM

A standardisation is a good idea. And for me capitalisation is the better choice, since it would easiliy allow reconstrucetd roots by asterix and captalisation.


ArcusCalion 06-01-2018 06:30 PM

While scouring Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn for any more bits I could use, I found something in Appendix E that I figured we were lacking at the moment: the translation and etymology of Celeborn's name. Therefore, as this is his first appearance in the narrative, I figured we could add it in here as a footnote, like so:

NG-EX-04.92<Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn In Doriath {she}Galadriel met Celeborn, NG-EX-04.93 <The Names of Galadriel and Celeborn [Footnote: {the}The ancient stem of the Elvish word for ‘silver’ was kyelep-, becoming celeb in Sindarin. {, telep-, telpe in Telerin, and tyelep-, tyelpe in Quenya. But in Quenya the form telpe became usual, through the influence of Telerin; for the Teleri prized silver above gold, and their skill as silversmiths was esteemed even by the Noldor. Thus Telperion was more commonly used than Tyelperion as the name of the White Tree of Valinor. (Alatáriel was also Telerin; its Quenya form was Altáriel.)
The name Celeborn when first devised was intended to mean "Silver Tree"; it was the name of the Tree of Tol Eressëa (The Silmarillion p.59). Celeborn's close kin had "tree-names" (p.244): Galadhon his fa¬ther, Galathil his brother, and Nimloth his niece, who bore the same name as the White Tree of Númenor. In my father's latest philological writings, however, the meaning "Silver Tree" was abandoned: the}The second element of Celeborn (as the name of a person) was derived from the ancient adjectival form ornā ‘uprising, tall,’ rather than from the related noun ornē ‘tree.’ (Ornê was originally applied to straighter and more slender trees such as birches, whereas stouter, more spreading trees such as oaks and beeches were called in the ancient language galada ‘great growth;’ but this distinction was not always observed in Quenya and disappeared in Sindarin, where all trees came to be called galadh, and orn fell out of common use, surviving only in verse and songs and in many names both of persons and of trees.)]> grandson of Elmo the brother of Thingol>

Findegil 06-02-2018 06:04 PM

NG-EX-04.93: Agreed.


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