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LePetitChoux 07-10-2003 05:14 AM

Cryptic Clues
Basically, here you conceal the person/thing/place/word/quote etc. (in short, anything Tolkien-related) in a cryptic clue. This is the same principle as the cryptic clues found in crosswords.

I'll start (this won't be great, though):

Sounds to me like a dwarf letting off light!

It's not brilliant, but I hope it makes sense...


[ July 10, 2003: Message edited by: LePetitChoux ]

The Saucepan Man 07-10-2003 06:25 PM

Ah, a game for crossword addicts. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] How can I resist, as most of my attempted riddles end up as cryptic clues. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Is the answer Gloin? A Dwarf, whose name sounds like "glowing", ie giving off light.

LePetitChoux 07-11-2003 12:55 AM

Well done (as usual)! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

The Saucepan Man 07-11-2003 08:39 PM

Thank you, my green-leaved friend. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Friend and worker go to one river for visual aid

LePetitChoux 07-13-2003 04:41 AM

So this is what frustration feels like! I have been staring at that, glaring at it, gripping the side of my computer desk until my knuckles turned white, kicking things.....

And there I was, thinking I could just about recognise and therefore solve the different types of cryptic crossword clue...(I went to Cryptic Crossword Club for one or two terms, hehe) [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I shall continue striving onwards to achieve enlightenment solution-wise...Or give up trying! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

P.S.This is just a gentle bump for
a)the Clamouring Quizmaster to have mercy on my suffering and out of the goodness of his heart give me a hint (wink wink nudge nudge say no more, say no more [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )
b)the other crossword lovers here to come and try their luck [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

P.P.S. Wow..I've never used that many smilies before...

Gil-Galad 07-13-2003 09:51 AM

is it something about the lady of the Old Forest river?

The Saucepan Man 07-14-2003 07:39 AM

No, I am afraid that's not it.

I am concerned that, for those who are not familiar with cryptic clues of the type intended on this thread, further explanation may be required.

A cryptic clue is one which contains both a straight clue to the answer and a clue which uses wordplay to portray the answer. So, in LePetit's first question, where the answer was Gloin, the straight clue was "Dwarf" and the cryptic clue was "Sounds like letting off light".

The crytic clue will often involve a number of sub-clues making up diferent parts of the word.

Cryptic clues generally follow a number of conventions. Although this is not a comprehensive list, some common ones are:
  • Synonyms - the clue might include a synonym for a word that makes up part of the answer - for example "big cat ..." for "-lion" in "Ecthelion".
  • Anagrams - the answer or part of it might be an anagram of the clue, with a word such as "confused" or "muddled" to indicate that it is an anagram, eg "a gal is confused ..." for "gala-" in "galadriel".
  • Backwards words - a synonym for the word written backwards, accompanied by words to indicate that the clue is to be reversed, eg "Steal back ..." for "Bor-" in "Boromir" (rob backwards).
  • "Sounds like" - as in LePetit's example, the clue will be accompanied by words indicating that it sounds like the answer (or part of it), such as "It is said ...".
  • Words in words - the answer, or part of it, is to be found in one or more words in the clue, again with words to signify this, for example "Hobbit found in Gerbil Box" for "Bilbo".
  • First or last letters - the first or last letter of the clue is to be taken, depending on the words used, eg "first of May ..." for the letter "M" or last in line for the letter "E".
  • There are also a number of other common clues used for single letters, such as "point" or something similar for one of the compass points (N, S, E or W), and "note" or the like for a musical note (A, B, C, D, E, F or G).
  • Similarly, "article" is often used to signify "a", "an" or "the"; "one" is used for "I" or "A"; "zero" or "nothing" is used for "O", and so on. The answer to the sub-clue might also be its abbreviation, as in "right" and "left" for "R" and "L"; "lake" for "L"; "river" for "R"; "street" and "road" for "ST" and "RD" etc.

The clue may also include words to indicate the order in which the sub-clues are to be put together, The "backwards synonym" clue above is an example. Also words such as "surrounds" or "inside" may indicate that one clue surrounds or is inside the other, such as "Hobbit is left inside apron, leading to nothing" for "Bilbo" (l inside bib plus o). Words may also be used to indicate that a letter is missing, for example "purpose loses nothing", again for "gala-" in "Galadriel" (goal losing o).

I hope that this helps to make things clearer. If not, please feel free to PM me. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

The Squatter of Amon Rdh 07-14-2003 07:52 AM

Actually Saucepan's being quite kind, and if you've ever tried the Times crossword you'll know what I mean. The answer to that last one is Palantr, and it works like this:

Friend = pal
Worker = ant
One = Roman numeral 'I'
River = abbreviated to 'r'

The clue for the whole being 'visual aid'. Cunning.

[ July 14, 2003: Message edited by: The Squatter of Amon Rdh ]

The Saucepan Man 07-14-2003 08:08 AM

Thanks, Squatter. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Palantir it is, and for the reasons stated, so you're up next ...

The Squatter of Amon Rdh 07-14-2003 08:26 AM

These are much harder to invent than they are to solve! Try this one on for size:

Spinner returns trunk after call for silence

Sophia the Thunder Mistress 07-14-2003 08:11 PM

I have found it!

Sh= a call for silence

elob= bole, a synonym for "trunk", reversed.

Shelob, a great spinner indeed.

The Squatter of Amon Rdh 07-15-2003 03:27 AM

Right you are, Sophia. Your turn.

Sophia the Thunder Mistress 07-15-2003 11:12 PM

Ach, Squatter, right you were about how hard it is to invent these. Next to impossible to reduce it to one line. Hope it's decipherable.

Initially, Kate had air and dreams, but right in the middle it sounds like they let her see her fate following underground.

[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: Sophia the Thunder Mistress ]

The Squatter of Amon Rdh 07-16-2003 03:41 AM

Khazad-dm, O esteemed thunderer.

The first letters of Kate had air and dreams, with a letter that sounds like 'see' (z - pronounced 'zee' by Americans), placed in the middle: Khazad

Then Dm sounds like 'doom', which is fate.

The whole being underground.

[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: The Squatter of Amon Rdh ]

Sophia the Thunder Mistress 07-16-2003 10:25 AM

Splendid, Squatter, do carry on. And I learn something new about the alphabet, something I thought I had finally mastered. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: Sophia the Thunder Mistress ]

The Squatter of Amon Rdh 07-16-2003 01:03 PM

With pleasure. I hope you other Britons were watching, because I shan't explain why 'see' sounds like 'zed' again.

Unleavened sundry pursued by the Spanish insect in old forest

The Saucepan Man 07-16-2003 04:40 PM

Nan Elmoth, I do believe

"Unleavened sundry" - Nan bread, an unleavened accompaniment for sundry curries [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
"pursued by the Spanish" - El is Spanish for "the"
"insect" - moth

"in old forest" - Nan Elmoth, meaning Star Dusk Valley, was a forest in Beleriand.

The Squatter of Amon Rdh 07-17-2003 04:16 AM

Spot on, Sir. Pray continue.

The Saucepan Man 07-17-2003 12:24 PM

If you insist, old chap. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Black rider misses river after upsetting Frodo in northern territory.

Annunfuiniel 07-17-2003 12:41 PM

Forodwaith - the Northern waste.

Black rider misses river - Wraith minus R = -waith

after upsetting Frodo - "upset" Frodo gives Forod-

in the northern territory = Forodwaith

Any good?


[ July 17, 2003: Message edited by: Annunfuiniel ]

The Saucepan Man 07-17-2003 12:51 PM

Perfect, Annun. Good to see you back. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Annunfuiniel 07-17-2003 01:12 PM

Thank you, dear Man; it's good to be back (though I was just in the neighborhood...)! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]


Short foreign lord with a stern face meets you in the middle, in arms.


The Squatter of Amon Rdh 07-28-2003 06:03 AM

You seem to have defeated all of us with that one, Annunfuiniel. Could we perhaps have a clue?

Annunfuiniel 07-28-2003 07:52 AM

Yup, seems I have killed this thread... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Well, if you can't solve this one, don't worry; most likely the fault's not in you but in the clue itself!

As for hints: in arms alludes somewhat straight to the answer I'm looking for AND - warning! - to solve this clue you need to use that horrid, unnatural, distorted language that made even the ever-so-manly Earnur Etceteron's pants shake!

Hope that helps! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]


Keeper of Dol Guldur 07-28-2003 07:50 PM

Is it Merry Brandybuck? It was after all the Witch-King who made Earnur panic, and Merry was a short 'foreign lord' in that he was the son of the Master of Brandy Hall. But actually the 'in arms' part makes me wonder.

Annunfuiniel 07-28-2003 08:47 PM

Not the answer I had in mind, sorry.


Turambar 07-29-2003 01:40 PM

Is the horrid, etc. language the Black Speech? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[ July 29, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

Annunfuiniel 07-29-2003 01:45 PM

As Black as it can get! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

(Hope you all are familiar with the Revenge of the Entish Bow -RPG...)


Turambar 07-29-2003 01:50 PM

Is it solvable if you aren't familiar with the Revenge ?

I love the idea of this game. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Annunfuiniel 07-29-2003 01:55 PM

It should be; I honestly hope it is...

Ok, that last clue hints to only one letter, in the middle.


Btw. Turambar: nice to see you again; I deem it's been a while.

Turambar 07-29-2003 02:04 PM

Nice to see you too !

OK -- thinking out loud, in the hope that this will guilt you into steering me in the right direction . . .

"you in the middle" suggests that there's a "U" in the middle of . . . what? Of "meets", or a synonym or anagram of "meets", or of "in arms", ditto. Hmmm.

The first part of the puzzle is of the synonym type, I'd guess. "Short foreign lord" = ???? Napoleon? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

"A stern" suggests "astern", meaning in the back, so "face" (or a synonym or anagram) goes in the back of . . .

I'VE GOT IT ! It's Nap-u-phiz, Black Speech for corn muffin. My turn?

[ July 29, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

Annunfuiniel 07-29-2003 02:15 PM


"you in the middle" suggests that there's a "U" in the middle

"Short foreign lord" = ???? Napoleon?

I'VE GOT IT ! It's Nap-u-phiz, Black Speech for corn muffin. My turn?
Er... Keep on trying, dear! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]


Turambar 07-29-2003 02:50 PM

I'll ponder it some more but nothing is coming to me. Anyone else have any ideas?

Cinderella 07-29-2003 03:09 PM

I'm with Turambar on the corn muffin... no seriously I have no clue, I've been looking at this for twenty minutes and i think I'm actully understanding it less as time passes [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Turambar 07-29-2003 03:23 PM


Beren87 07-29-2003 04:07 PM

Or, perhaps, Naugrim?

Na-being the Napolean
U-already explained
Grim-stern face

Turambar 07-29-2003 04:30 PM

Annunfuiniel [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]'d at the Napoleon guess, which I took to mean "incorrect".

Hmmm - one meeaning of G. Herr is "lord", so "Her-" would be a foreign lord, short one letter. "-grim" would be stern, and they meet in the middle at "-u-".

And "in arms" is the straight clue, as Annun said. Herugrim was Theoden's sword.

[ July 29, 2003: Message edited by: Turambar ]

Annunfuiniel 07-29-2003 08:39 PM

*Wild applause and three cheers*

Turambar, perfect reasoning! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] The ungrateful task of creating a new clue is yours now...


Beren87 07-29-2003 08:51 PM

Mine rhymed with the right answer.. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

I'll just be going now..

Turambar 07-30-2003 05:50 AM

Crafty actor goes back to earth tones.

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