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- - Húrin's Ordeal (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1161)

Húrin is regarded as the mightiest man to ever lived.

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Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Húrin cried: 'Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!' Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive, by the command of Morgoth, for the Orcs grappled him with their hands, which clung to him still though he hewed off their arms; and ever their numbers were renewed, until at last he fell buried beneath them. Then Gothmog bound him and dragged him to Angband with mockery.

Before he left for the Nirnaeth Arnoediad:

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Then Morwen bade farewell to Húrin without tears; and she said: "I will guard what you leave in my keeping, both what is and what shall be."

Húrin defied the greatest being in the entire world:

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Húrin was brought before Morgoth, for Morgoth knew by his arts and his spies that Húrin had the friendship of the King of Gondolin; and he sought to daunt him with his eyes. Nut Húrin could not yet be daunted, and be defied Morgoth. Therefore Morgoth had him chained and set in slow torment; but after a while he came to him, and offered him his choice to go free whither he would, or to receive power and rank as the greatest of Morgoth's captains, if he would but reveal where Turgon had his stronghold, and aught else that he knew of the King's counsels. But Húrin the Steadfast mocked him saying: "Blind you are Morgoth Bauglir, and blind shall ever be, seeing only the dark. You know not what rules the hearts of Men, and if you knew you could not give it. But a fool is he who accepts what Morgoth offers. You will take first the price and then withhold the promise; and I should get only death, if I told you what you ask."

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"This last then I will say to you, thrall Morgoth," said Húrin, "and it comes not from the lore of the Eldar, but is put into my heart in this hour. You are not the Lord of Men, and shall not be, though all Arda and Menel fall in your dominion. Beyond the Circles of the World you shall not pursue those who refuse you."

Húrin was later released by Morgoth:

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When therefore he judged the time to be ripe, he released Húrin from his bondage, bidding him go whither he would; and he feigned that in this he was moved by pity as for an enemy utterly defeated. But he lied, for his purpose was that Húrin should still further his hatred for Elves and Men, ere he died.

In the end, he was reconciled with his wife:

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But Húrin did not look at the stone, for he knew what was written there; and his eyes had seen that he was not alone. Sitting in the shadow of the stone there was a woman, bent over her knees; and as Húrin stood there silent she cast back her tattered hood and lifted her face. Grey she was and old, but suddenly her eyes looked into his, and he knew her; for though they were wild and full of fear, that light still gleamed in them that long ago had earned for her the name Eledhwen, proudest and most beautiful of mortal women in the days of old.

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But Húrin did not answer, and they sat beside the stone, and did not speak again; and when the sun went down Morwen sighed and clasped his hand, and was still; and Húrin knew that she had died. He looked down at her in the twilight and it seemed to him that the lines of grief and cruel hardship were smoothed away. 'She was not conquered,' he said; and he closed her eyes, and sat unmoving beside her as the night drew down. The waters of Cabed Naeramarth roared on, but he heard no sound, and he saw nothing, and felt nothing, for his heart was stone within him. But there came a chill wind that drove sharp rain into his face; and he was roused, and anger rose in him like smoke, mastering reason, so that all his desire was to seek vengeance for his wrongs and for the wrongs of his kin, accusing in his anguish all those who ever had dealings with them. Then he rose up, and he made a grave for Morwen above Cabed Naeramarth on the west side of the stone; and upon it he cut these words: Here lies also Morwen Eledhwen.

In the end, with all that happened to him,
Was he conquered by Morgoth or not?

I don't believe he was conquered, but I do think that he was much embittered by his long torment,since he was driven to seek vengeance on all that he had had dealings with.

Hurin conquered Morgoth.

I don't think he was conqueres either. Morgoth may have changed him though. I think Luthien gave a good answer. He was away from his family almost his entire life. They all died, thinking him dead. Except for Morwen who got those last few minutes of her life with him. He most likely felt that bitterness in his heart. All that he loved and wanted in his life were taken away.

Wow, I just read that part in the Unfinished Tales about Hurin defying Morgoth. I do not believe he was the greatest man to have ever lived, but he would probably be on the list. I also do not think Morgoth conquered him, if he had Hurin would have yielded the secret of Turgon's stronghold, which he did not. I agree with everyone else's replies.

Welcome to the Downs, Remmirath! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Remmiriath! Welcome to the Downs!! I think I have told you welcome before...oh well!!! Have fun posting!! See ya around! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Hurin is a great example of why Men are the children of Iluvatar. No elf could have done better. First he with his brother holds back the entire hostile army, and then he suffers torture without saying a word. He became bitter, and a broken man, but in him you see the resemblance there is between Men and Elves. He is one of my favorite persons because of his great deeds.

I think that in the end, he proved mighty. He was the mightiest of all warriors of the race of men.

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Then he turned away, and passed out from the Thousand Caves, and all that saw him fell back before his face; and none sought to withstand his going, nor did any know whither he went. But it is said that Húrin would not live thereafter, being bereft of all purpose and desire, and cast himself at last into the western sea; and so ended the mightiest of the warriors of mortal Men.

What was Morgoth's purpose with Hurin (besides having him expose Turgon and Gondolin)? If he desired to mar and embitter the greatest warrior of men, then he did so.

This question is almost as slippery as that scene in Starwars in which Luke is fighting Darth Vadar. He isn't sure if he's supposed to love or to hate Vadar in order to defeat him because Vadar hates, and to hate him back would be to empower and strengthen him. Maybe setting Hurin on the path of revenge and bitterness was Morgoth's purpose, in which case Hurin was defeated by his own tenacity.

I might be reading too much into this entirely, but it's just an idea. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

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Maybe setting Hurin on the path of revenge and bitterness was Morgoth's purpose, in which case Hurin was defeated by his own tenacity.

You're probably right. That, and the desire to just cause misery for the sake of causing misery.

Hurin won and lost against Morgoth. He won in the sense he consistently refused to disclose the location of Gondolin, despite everything Morgoth put him through. At the same time he lost, where Morgoth succeeded in turning him into a bitter man (and otherwise making his life a shamble), as revenge for not giving into Morgoth's desire.

He was only human. Everything he held dear was taken away. He was tormented beyond what you and I can comprehend (I presume). I think it's unfair to say that Morgoth defeated Hurin just because he managed to crush his heart. Any terrorist can accomplish what Morgoth did. Don't forget that Hurin was finally released having never compromised or pleaded for mercy.

Again I say, Hurin most assuredly conquered Morgoth.

Good topic, by the way.

[ June 22, 2002: Message edited by: obloquy ]

I have to say that I agree with obloquy. Morgoth, althought wounded Húrin greatly with his curse, he always defied him and never surrendered to him. And he never gave him the location of Gondolin.

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Good topic, by the way.

Thanks. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]