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- - Naming the Nazgul (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=801)

Naming the Nazgul

Decipher and Mithril have named the nazgul.
Decipher goes by their titles and rank for Sauron, whilst Mithril created a background so here, for as close as I can tell, is the matchups in rank for Mithril
The Witch King, Black Numenorean
Ulaire Attea=Khamul the Shadow, keeper of Dol Goldur.
Ulaire Cantea=Adunaphel, Rhovannion?
Ulaire Enquea=Akhorahil, Black Numenorean
Ulaire Lemenya=Hoarmurath, Black Numenorean
Ulaire Nelya=Ren the Unclean, Rhunlander?
Ulaire Nertea=Uvatha the Horseman, Variag
Ulaire Ostea=Dwar of ???, Easterling
Ulaire Toldea=Indur Dawndeath, Haradrim
The only problem is the actual Mithril names, it really takes away the sense of shady origins and mystery from them. Oh well, if you have any questions, comments, feel free to ask.

Hmph! I don't think Decipher has the right ot name the Nazgul. Tolkien intended for the Nazgul to remain unnamed yet some company did it so they could make more money. Humph!

Tee-Hee! I like being grumpy. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Decipher's Nazgul remain unnamed. They are merely given titles to distinguish one from the other for game mechanics purposes. Their "names" are simply Quenya translations of "2nd Ringwraith", "3rd Ringwraith", etc. In case you're curious, Decipher's Nazgul are numbered as follows: Ulaire Attea (Atta = 2); Ulaire Nelya (Nelde = 3); Ulaire Cantea (Canta = 4); Ulaire Lemenya (Lempe = 5); Ulaire Enquea (Enque = 6); Ulaire Ostea (sic. Probably a mistake on Decipher's part) (Otso = 7); Ulaire Toldea (Tolto = 8); Ulaire Nertea (Nerte = 9).

They did give each Nazgul an additional title, such as "Lieutenant of Morgul" or "Messenger of Dol Guldur", but they all conincide with Tolkien's writings.

[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: obloquy ]

Exactly, and Khamul is Ulaire Attea, Keeper of Dol Goldur, but I think since both Mithril and the Middle Earth trading card game call them by names, they needed to be matched up. I still think the names are a mistake though, and that Decipher did right by naming and ranking them with number 1, etc...
I can just see Sauron now
"Shall I fortify Dol Goldur, master?" Khamul.

"Make it so number one," Sauron.

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Ulaire Ostea=Dwar of ???, Easterling

I was just looking at Mithril Miniature's web site, he's listed as Dwaw of Waw. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

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I was just looking at Mithril Miniature's web site, he's listed as Dwaw of Waw.

What a dreadful name. It sounds as though he was named by an old Etonian with a speech impediment. Plus it rhymes with 'Lord Haw-Haw'*

*British nickname for William Joyce, expatriate Briton and Nazi radio propagandist later captured and hanged for treason.

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One of them, the second in rank after the Lord of the Nazgûl himself, was named Khamûl, and also known as the Black Easterling. This is the only one of the nine Nazgûl explicitly named by Tolkien.

This may come as a surprise if you've come across one of the many sources that list a set of names of the other eight: Murazor (the Witch-king himself), Dwar, Ji Indur, Akhorahil, Hoarmurath, Adunaphel, Ren and Uvatha. These names are common across the Web, and often have detailed biographies to go with them. They're also consistent with what Tolkien had to say about the origins of the Nazgûl: in the Akallabêth it is stated '...among those whom he ensnared with the Nine Rings three were great lords of Númenórean race', and indeed three of these names are Númenórean in form: Murazor, Akhorahil and Adunaphel.

None of these eight names, though, have their origins in Tolkien's own work. Instead, they come from a series of role-playing and trading card games produced by Iron Crown Enterprises. The names of Murazor, Dwar and the rest emerged from the unavoidable need for these games to develop and expand Tolkien's universe to meet the needs of the gaming fraternity. The games' popularity accounts for the regular appearance of the names, to the extent that they're now frequently presented as the 'true' names of the remaining eight Nazgûl.

Some readers have even suggested that these names are so widely accepted that they should be considered the de facto names for the eight otherwise unnamed Ringwraiths. On a personal level, or in the context of the games that spawned the names, this isn't an unreasonable approach: if Tolkien never told us the name of, say, the Witch-king, there seems little obvious harm in imagining that his name was originally Murazor (or anything else, for that matter). Things become a little more problematic where the names are published without explanation: we receive plenty of e-mail from puzzled readers trying to work out which of Tolkien's books the names come from.

From The Encyclopedia of Arda

Everybody seems to be confused a little by the Ulaire Ostea. On the original card made by Decipher it spelled Ostea. They realized they made a mistake and corrected it in the Realms of the Elf Lord expansion. The typo that is on the card from the Fellowship is Ulaire Ostea. The correction was Ulaire Otsea.

I hope this may have cleared things up a bit.

I prefer not to consider those names as the accurate names of the Nazgul. Tolkien didn't intend them to be named, because, as the ancient Egyptians and the Dwarves believed, there is a lot of power in a name. We also fear what we don't know. If we don't know someone's name, and therefore cannot pinpoint their identity, we fear them all the more. Tolkien wanted the Nazgul to be creatures of pure fear, and not giving them names accomplished just that.

The card company (and people who realize what the names mean) don't even intend them as names. They're just titles so that the Nazgul cards can be separately referred to by players as Nazgul 1, Nazgul 2, etc.

[ June 16, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

I think the Encyclopedia of Arda is quite wrong when they say that, for instance, there is little harm in thinking that the name Murezor was the Witch-king's name. Maybe if Tolkien simply forgot to mention his real name, but all signs indicate that it is with intention that Tolkien never tells us his, or the other Nazgul (minus Khamul, and even that is outside the primary canon). It would be similar to trying to create an original name for the Mouth of Sauron, whose name is explicitly forgotten for the reason that he had no longer any individual identity in his service to Sauron.

So, they should be considered facts? I don't think so - they aren't made by Tolkien, therefore they can't be facts. Fanfics aren't usually(=never) considered true(well, with the exception of the Fall of Gondolin :P), and these names are just fan fiction.

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So, they should be considered facts?

No. They aren't considered facts or names...just titles convenient during gameplay: Ninth Nazgul, Eighth Nazgul, so on... It's just Elvish instead of English.

[ June 16, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

The Fall of Gondolin is fanfic?

Wasn't it the Fall of Doriath which, in the 77 Silmarillion, was largely written on the spot by CJRT and his co-author and might thus be considered merely good fanfic?

neither the "Fall of Gondolin" nor the "Fall of Doriath" are really fanfics, though they are also not JRR's work really at all. They are more like narratives written by Christopher based entirely off of what JRR had written, but having to be an entirely new text because what Christopher had to work with was either Old (BoLT "Fall of Gondolin) half-done, or fragmented and non-narrative. In these cases, the background texts could not by themselves be considered authoritative like the texts used to make some of the earlier Silmarillion chapter, and the only way to make a chapter with their stories was essentially for Christopher to do what he did.

Posted by Wersterly Wizard:

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They are more like narratives written by Christopher based entirely off of what JRR had written, but having to be an entirely new text because what Christopher had to work with was either Old (BoLT "Fall of Gondolin) half-done, or fragmented and non-narrative.

That is only true for The Fall of Gondolin. In The Fall of Doriath CJRT added a good deal of his owne or Mr. Kay's ideas that had no basis in JRRT writtings at all. And he commented later on this that he whiched he hadn't steped so far ofer boundary of pure editing.

Respectfully
Findegil

P.S.: Since it created some confusion: All that I wrote in this post is meant for the chapters of "The Silmarillion" as published by Christopher Tolkien (the '77 and 2000 editions are the same in these points).

[ June 18, 2003: Message edited by: Findegil ]

So you mean the chapter within the '77. You ought to make that distinction next time.