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Joy 06-27-2002 10:01 PM

According to the Encyclopedia of Arda the Vanyar remained in Valinor. So, were the some of the desendents of the Vanyar in Middle Earth. I know that Galadriel was one.

Also, didn't Thranduil have golden hair? Where did this trait come from? I don't remember any geneologies being done for his family.

[ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

obloquy 06-27-2002 11:09 PM

At Greenbooks, in the recent Q&A update, a question was asked about Legolas' hair, and the hair of his father Thranduil. In response to the answer given by Anwyn (which I thought to be insufficient), I emailed the following:


There was no strict rule as to hair color among the Elves. In general, however, the golden hair came from the Vanyar, while the Noldor had dark hair. As for the hair of the Sindar, Tolkien writes this in "Quendi and Eldar," WOTJ:

"The Loremasters also supposed that reference was made [in the name 'Sindar', which means 'grey, pale or silvery grey'] to the hair of the Sindar. Elwe himself had indeed long and beautiful hair of silver hue, but this does not seem to have been a common feature of the Sindar, though it was found among them occasionally, especially in the nearer or remoter kin of Elwe (as in the case of Círdan). In general the Sindar appear to have very closely resembled the Exiles, being dark-haired, strong and tall, but lithe. Indeed they could hardly be told apart except by their eyes; for the eyes of all the Elves that had dwelt in Aman impressed those of Middle-earth by their piercing brightness."

Text in brackets is mine.

According to The Shibboleth of Fëanor, three of Fëanor's sons apparently had red hair!

So hair color really isn't as indicative as many people believe. Because the Elven tribes were defined by who followed whom, and not necessarily who fathered whom; and since intermarriage between tribes was not forbidden, it would not be inconceivable for Legolas, although Sindarin, to have light hair.
In answer to your first question, I would say it's actually possible that some of the Avari were from the light-haired families that originally made up the Vanyar. Unless it specifically says somewhere that all of the Vanyar stuck to the journey from Cuivienen to the end, I would assume that there were an odd few who, for one reason or another, stuck around in Middle-earth. Maybe one of them married Thranduil's father, and that's how he inherited golden hair? Galadriel is actually only part Vanya, though, being the granddaughter of Finwe and his second wife, Indis of the Vanyar.

Joy 06-27-2002 11:32 PM

Thank you much obloquy. This is something that I have wondered about for some time.

I have often wondered if there were any red-headed elves. Thanks for answering that question too. My char in a fan-fic is a red-head Elf.

Elrian 06-28-2002 01:44 AM


Also, didn't Thranduil have golden hair?
I knew Legolas did, but I don't remember Thranduil having golden hair.

burrahobbit 06-28-2002 11:29 AM


I knew Legolas did
How do you know that?

Legolas 06-28-2002 11:30 AM

Did you have him over for tea one day?

obloquy 06-28-2002 11:39 AM

That lucky duck!!!

Lush 06-28-2002 05:45 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that any of Tolkien's writings ever mention the colour of Legolas' hair. It could've been a punk-blue for all we know. Unless, Elrian indeed had him over for tea, in which case one of the raging fan-girls will probably murder her out of jealousy anyway. Beware the fangirls, Elrian! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Oh, and Joy, Maedrhós is the most prominent redhead in all of Elvendom, I believe.

burrahobbit 06-28-2002 06:07 PM

Lush is quite correct, Tolkien says nothing of the hair color of Legolas.

celeborn 06-28-2002 06:12 PM

I thought he did too. Wow, what a bunch of vultures [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Lush 06-28-2002 08:30 PM

Vultures? Where? *ducks*

Elrian 08-04-2002 01:36 PM

Now just hold your horses ladies, Lego is not my type, I go for the older more mature type like Elrond or Glorfindel [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] . Old thread though, don't know what I was thinking of that day (Glorfindel [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] ), could have seen it somewhere else in another Tolkien based book. Anyway who let these ??????vultures out?????? No point in arguing over old threads. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Everdawn 04-28-2003 01:41 AM

Nope, it may say lush, but the exact colour of Legolas hair is never mentioned...

piosenniel 04-28-2003 02:04 AM

Here is an interesting link to the Eldar Hair Color Genome:


Morwen Tindomerel 04-28-2003 09:09 AM

If I recall correctly Tolkien does specifically state in several drafts that *all* the small tribe of Vanyar go to Aman. On the other hand though the Vanyar are all golden haired I don't think he says anywhere that all blond Elves are Vanyar, (if you follow that). In other words there's no reason to assume that golden hair didn't occur in other tribes.

P.S. If Thranduil was blond there's a reasonably good chance his son was as well.

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