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piosenniel 09-29-2006 01:52 PM

Treachery of Men Discussion/Planning Thread
This is a planning thread for Anguirel’s RPG proposal:

Only those listed below may post to the thread at present.
  • Anguirel - game founder/facilitator
  • bill_n_sam
  • CaptainofDespair
  • Celuien
  • Child of the 7th Age
  • Dimturiel
  • Durelin
  • Folwren
  • Fordim Hedgethistle
  • Garen LiLorian
  • Kath
  • Lalaith
  • Mithalwen
  • Nogrod
  • Noinkling
  • piosenniel - moderator for the game
  • Rune Son of Bjarne
  • Volo

All other posts will be deleted

piosenniel 09-29-2006 01:53 PM

Treachery of Men

Historical Background:

In the wake of the disastrous Dagor Bragollach, the Battle of Sudden Flame, Caranthir, Lord of Thargelion and son of Feanor, was driven from his realm and joined his people to those of his brothers, the hunters Amrod and Amras, maintaining a strong guard against Morgoth on Amon Ereb.

Meanwhile, the eldest of the Sons of Feanor, Maedhros, extended his friendship and welcome to the tribes of Easterlings coming over the Ered Lindon, bearing in mind the desperate need of the Noldor and Edain for more troops if the battle against Morgoth was to be won.

The Easterlings were led by two chieftains, Bor and Ulfang. Bor entered the army of Maedhros, and his people marched to the north; but Ulfang swore an oath to be Caranthir’s liegeman, and his people were given lands on the borders of the green forests of South East Beleriand. There they remained for a while in peace and contentment, and more of them traveled across the Blue Mountains, hearing of a safe refuge that could be earned for a little axe-service.

Events in the world outside took their toll, inevitably, however, and Maedhros began to draw up plans for a great Union of all the Elven-princes and the Men who followed them, to finally break Morgoth’s strength. His messengers rode with haste, cunning and care to reach the lands of his brothers and summon their forces to his side.

Caranthir in turn sent a rider to the lands of the Ulfings, haughtily bidding them assemble their full power and march north.

piosenniel 09-29-2006 01:54 PM

Links for First Age information

Chronology of the First Age




Houses of Bor and Ulfang


The Wars of Beleriand - Battles from the Silmarillion


Nirnaeth Arnoediad -- click on Battles of the 1st Age; then choose The Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

piosenniel 09-29-2006 01:55 PM

Basic Storyline:

Caranthir’s messenger arrives in the settlement of the Ulfings, seeking an audience with Ulfang, and summoning them to prepare for battle.

He does not know that Ulfang, growing in age and cunning, increasingly gives ear to his eldest, most ruthless son Uldor; a known outlaw who has been banished for slaying unarmed men and raping women, and spent long periods in the east, but has always eventually been allowed back by his doting father.

And Uldor is inclined to listen to another messenger...

Amid the intrigue and treachery, life for the Ulfing tribesmen and women goes on as usual, tinged now with the looming menace of imminent war.

piosenniel 09-29-2006 01:55 PM

The purpose of the story is to:

Assemble the Ulfing detachment so it can join the army of Caranthir as it passes by on the way north; and secretly conclude the treacherous pact with Morgoth.

piosenniel 09-29-2006 01:56 PM

Starting Location: The settlement of the Ulfings.

Likely destination: Caranthir’s camp in East Beleriand.

piosenniel 09-29-2006 01:57 PM


This game begins in the Spring (@ April), 471 FA.

The Dagor Bragollach (Battle of Sudden Flame) was fought in Winter of 455 FA to Spring 456 FA.

The Nirnaeth Arnoediad (Battle of Unnumbered Tears) began on Midsummer’s Day (@ June 22), 471 FA.

piosenniel 09-29-2006 01:58 PM


The Coming of Men Into the West (from The Atlas of Middle-earth; "The First Age" - Karen Wynn Fonstad)


Beleriand - North/South view (from The Atlas of Middle-earth; "The First Age" - Karen Wynn Fonstad)


Beleriand - East/West view (from The Atlas of Middle-earth; "The First Age" - Karen Wynn Fonstad)


Map of Beleriand (From the Silmarillion; HarperCollins 1992 edition)

piosenniel 09-29-2006 01:59 PM

Vision for the Game

Most of the game will be within the Ulfing settlement, looking at Ulfing life, through the sceptical and opposing eyes of my Elf and Durelin's spy. I was almost going for a "War and Peace" feel here; I wanted a long section of peace where readers developed sympathy for even the unlikeliest characters followed by a quick march to war.

The fates of all the characters at the Nirnaeth, from Uldor and my Elf down to the last Ulfing or Borrim, will be covered in an epilogue compiled by everyone...if you think that's a good idea.

Uldor is a Player Character, and indeed a more important one than Ulfang. We're never told Ulfang the Black's fate; it's not even obvious that he and his contemporary Bor were at the Nirnaeth. So I decided to make him old and doddering. Uldor is the real "leader".

The characters it's hard to decide about are Ulwarth and Ulfast. They'd make interesting, but really unpleasant, characters for players. They're older than Uldor and I doubt they like him lording it over them, but they're too craven to resist.

As for the split...I originally did envisage a split between the Ulfings, but now wonder whether that would be uncanonical as there's no mention of Ulfings fighting on the Elven side after Uldor's treachery. I think, by and large, Uldor has to "persuade" most of the Ulfings. He may even dispose of some especially brave rebels.

The Borrim are there to discover, or get some inkling of, the plot, and report it back to my Elf, who will consider it and eventually, due to the esteem he's developed for the Ulfings, not believe them.

piosenniel 09-29-2006 02:00 PM


The vexing question of the cultural "feel" of the Ulfings and Borrim

Although these two peoples have Teutonic type names, (Ulfang, etc). they have been described by Tolkien as bow-legged, short and swart, almost Mongolian-like if I recall.

I suppose a compromise would land us somewhere in the region of Lapland...and the Borrim and Ulfings are indeed the ancestors of the Snowmen of easier parallel would probably be with Dunlendings. A bit swarthy and shifty but Men through and through.


EDIT by Anguirel 9/30/06

More on Ulfing/Borrim names. The best example of a relatively usual Easterling name we have is Brodda. "Barbaric", resonant, uncomplex.

I would avoid the prefixes Ul- and Bor- since they seem to denote a close relationship to the Chieftain (eg Ulfang, Uldor, Bor, Borlach)- and three sons of Ulfang are quite enough in anyone's book! But perhaps sons and fathers in general can share a prefix in the same way.

Finally, a careful re-reading of "Of the Fifth Battle" reveals that the Ulfings who did not change sides in the Nirnaeth generally fled as best they could, discomfited by the lies and deceit filling their lives (paraphrase.) So this is another possible fate for those of you Ulfings who have good, but not especially brave, hearts.

piosenniel 09-29-2006 02:01 PM


*Caranthir*, Prince of the Dispossessed Noldor (*CAMEO*, end of game) – Player Needed

Lachrandir, Caranthir’s Envoy - Anguirel - NO LONGER PLAYING - a proud but essentially good-hearted Noldorin Elf, impressed despite himself by what he has seen of Easterling prowess. Can’t help being condescending.

Tathren, Lachrandir's Page - Mithalwen


Ulfang - (born 400 FA – 71y/o) aging Ulfing chieftain (*CAMEO*) – CaptainofDespair

Ulfang's Sons:

Uldor - (born 425 FA – 46y/o ), the new power in the land – Folwren

Ulfast - (born 428 FA – 43y/o) – Celuien - NO LONGER PLAYING

Ulwarth - (born 430 FA – 41y/o) – Folwren (Carry-along character)


*Brodda* - Easterling chieftain under Morgoth's rule after the war (*CAMEO*) - CaptainofDespair



(Should be equal numbers of men and women. Ordinary Easterlings trying to survive in a hard world. Might be established families or recent immigrants.)

1.) Grímr & family - piosenniel (Father, Mother, 2 sons old enough to soldier, 2 younger children.)


2.) Anydor, male - Volo - NO LONGER PLAYING
3.) Adbrandr, male - Garen LiLorian - NO LONGER PLAYING
4.) Erling, male - Rune Son of Bjarne - NO LONGER PLAYING
5.) Dag, male - bill_n_sam - NO LONGER PLAYING


6.) Tora, female - Dimturiel
7.) Dulaan, female - Noinkling
8.) Gausen/Drenda, female w/son - Anguirel - NO LONGER PLAYING


Borrim Hunters

(A party from the north, these Easterlings are not made to feel entirely welcome among the others. They would never consider a pact with Morgoth.)

1.) Khandr, male - Child of the 7th Age
2.) Embla, female - Lalaith
3.) Hunta, male with a dog - Fordim Hedgethistle - NO LONGER PLAYING
4.) Bergr, male - Kath
5.) Fastarr, male - Nogrod


Jord (Thuringwethil), Morgoth’s Spy - 01/06 Now being played by Gwathagor (previously by Durelin) - Has the ear of Uldor


Thorn, old soothsayer - littlemanpoet

piosenniel 09-29-2006 02:14 PM

Character Description Form:

Have you posted in The Golden Perch Inn, The Green Dragon Inn, The White Horse Inn, or The Eorling Mead Hall in Rohan? – YES/NO

This is a requirement for playing in an RPG in the Shire or Rohan.

For your character please include:





WEAPONS: (No magical, super-hero, mithril weapons. Just good solid Middle-earth weapons and armor only that is appropriate to the race of the character and the time period.)


PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: (No half-Elven characters. No mixed-type characters. No super-heroes. No assassins. No one all powerful, martial arts proficient, or having any magical traits. Just regular characters with normal abilities for their races only)



First Posts for the characters are requested for this game.


Originally Posted by Anguirel, post #17
First posts would be brilliant, yes.

piosenniel 09-29-2006 02:15 PM

Anguirel - Durelin - Child

I thought perhaps that we can get our Character Bios done and Anguirel you can work up a First Post for the game.



When this thread opens to take on players - do you want First Posts from your players?

~*~ pio

Durelin 09-29-2006 02:47 PM

Ah, I'm excited about this!

So will we be covering the actual battle at all? I of course don't mean any great deal of fighting and sieging (it seems you're wanting to stay away from that, which I do like, even though a good battle can be great fun, too), but perhaps more of the *behind the scenes*? It's of no consequence if we are not.

I think I know what I want to do with the spy... I'll get working on the bio as soon as possible (I should have already started working on it, but it's been difficult to decide where to go with this...which is great!). I'll be playing Thuringwethil, I believe, as long as that is alright. And I will do my best to avoid vampire clichés, I promise you.

The Encyclopedia of Arda says this, and I imagine it's as credible as I'm going to find:


Originally Posted by The Encyclopedia of Arda
"Tolkien's use of vampire seems clearly influenced by its more modern associations, rather than its original Magyar meaning. In terms of the story, vampire is probably intended as a translation of an unknown Mannish name for these monsters: bat-winged, but apparently otherwise human-like in shape."

I suppose I'll have to hide her wings somehow, unless there's anything to suggest vampires might be able to shape-shift? Worse comes to worse it can always be explained that Morgoth somehow took care of that for her. I'll go with that.

I don't expect she's completely human looking all the time, even without her wings, so most likely she needs some help with illusion from Melkor anyway. :D

As for other vampire aspects...I imagine she'd still require victims? But perhaps these vampires would not necessarily require human victims at all. Would be interesting, if various herd animals and such were found dead every once in a while when she was too lazy to go out and hunt for her food...I think it would be a bit much to have people dropping dead, though. We've already got plenty of tragedy to deal with. ;)

Child of the 7th Age 09-29-2006 04:55 PM

Very happy to see this planning thread up. I am still toying with a possible character. Ang - I am going to drop you a pm tomorrow to see if if you have any preferences in this area. My schedule is tight through Monday because of the Jewish holidays. After that, it blissfully opens up as I have a "vacation" week with plenty of time to write. So my character info won't go up till then.

piosenniel 09-30-2006 12:29 AM

About Thuringwethil . . .

Originally Posted by Durelin
I'll be playing Thuringwethil, I believe, as long as that is alright.

There is one problem with playing Thuringwethil - this game takes place in 471 FA. Thuringwethil is thought to have perished in 468 FA. See HERE.

The key here is that she most "likely" died then when Sauron's Isle of Tol in Gaurhoth (formerly Tol Sirion) was destroyed.

I was thinking you could somehow include in her history section how she might have escaped being destroyed, leaving Sauron's employ when Tol in Gaurhoth fell, to rejoin Morgoth.

Also, she is most likely a Maia - so she is a spirit who can manifest whatever form she wishes. It's not really Skin-changing/Shape-shifting like the Beornings, who are Men. She chooses to manifest the form of a vampire with great wings and iron claws, especially when she is acting as a messenger and needing to fly somewhere quickly. And I'm sure if she wished she could seem as fair as needed. Or even take on a completely other sort of form.

I doubt she would need to actually 'eat/drink of' other lesser creatures to maintain her energy. But having become an evil creature, I could see her enjoying tormenting and killing whatever life forms she desired.

Anguirel 09-30-2006 03:41 AM

I would object neither Thuringwethil herself, as her death isn't explicitly mentioned by Tolkien, or failing that some kind of relation...Thuringwethil's godfather's cousin or something...

First posts would be brilliant, yes.

My character description is ready but I can't post it till Sunday night or Monday-it's on my school laptop and I'm at home.

Mith and Naria have both expressed an interest in this game. Mith is angling to be an elven page to my Envoy, a role I'm happy to create ad hoc...

Child, it would be great to have you as a Borrim hunter, if you'd like.

Very exciting, all this, and not a little alarming!

Durelin, the game proper will end with the Ulfings, and the rest of Caranthir, Amrod and Amras' armies, marching north. An epilogue will however be compiled by us all explaining what happened to all our luckless characters in the Nirnaeth. In fact I know more about my character's death at the moment than I do about his birth!

piosenniel 09-30-2006 03:53 AM


Alrighty - you are listed HERE as Caranthir's Envoy's Page.

And your name is on the list of those able to post to this thread.

piosenniel 09-30-2006 03:54 AM


You are on the list to post to this thread.

Please let us know ASAP which character you will be picking up.

Anguirel 09-30-2006 05:00 AM

Volo is interested, and is after a smallish part-I would suggest perhaps an Ulfing, which is both the least high-maintenance and the most important kind of role in a way...

More on Ulfing/Borrim names. The best example of a relatively usual Easterling name we have is Brodda. "Barbaric", resonant, uncomplex.

I would avoid the prefixes Ul- and Bor- since they seem to denote a close relationship to the Chieftain (eg Ulfang, Uldor, Bor, Borlach)- and three sons of Ulfang are quite enough in anyone's book! But perhaps sons and fathers in general can share a prefix in the same way.

Finally, a careful re-reading of "Of the Fifth Battle" reveals that the Ulfings who did not change sides in the Nirnaeth generally fled as best they could, discomfited by the lies and deceit filling their lives (paraphrase.) So this is another possible fate for those of you Ulfings who have good, but not especially brave, hearts.

Anguirel 09-30-2006 07:16 AM

Celuien is interested in the role of either Ulwarth or Ulfast.

Lalaith, new to RP but certain to be good at it, judging by Werewof and general wondrousness, is tempted to launch her debut in a smallish role. The inclusion of the Borrim hunters were, incidentally, her idea...

Child of the 7th Age 09-30-2006 07:21 AM


Child, it would be great to have you as a Borrim hunter, if you'd like.
Sounds good. Please add me to the list. As I mentioned before, I'll work on it but will likely not have it up till Tuesday or Wednesday.

piosenniel 09-30-2006 09:18 AM


Check your PM's please.

~*~ Pio

piosenniel 09-30-2006 09:54 AM


Your name is now on the list for posting to this thread.

I've put you down as an Ulfing in the Character/Player list above, as suggested by Anguirel.

piosenniel 09-30-2006 09:55 AM


You're on the Borrim hunter list. :)

piosenniel 09-30-2006 09:57 AM


I put you on the list to post to this thread.

And put you down for Ulwarth, if that's alright.

Durelin 09-30-2006 10:19 AM

Ah, actually, I like that little twist on Thuringwethil. Perhaps she was almost destroyed then, and had to go crawling back to Morgoth... Or, she simply fled when she knew things were going to get bad.

I see "robbed of her physical form" here... Could her spirit have gone 'running back' to Morgoth, and he give her back a physical form for this project (which he would take away again if she failed, hehe)?

I thought she was a Maia, but it had been suggested otherwise...

I apologize for not knowing too much about First Age history. I have read up on the times this game is set in, and have read other parts of the Sil, but my knowledge is limited, and my ability to keep the things that I do know in a timeline is, as well. :D

My heart is not so fully set on Thuringwethil that I could not easily change the concept behind my character, so please tell me what you'd prefer as mods, Pio and Child. I'll just enjoy a sinisterly evil role, no matter the details. ;)

piosenniel 09-30-2006 10:26 AM

Personally - I'd like to read your take on Thurngwethil.

She is such a briefly mentioned character by Tolkien; I'd like to see what you might do with the 'Woman of the Secret Shadow'.

I'd also say, let's assume she was a Maia and it would be interesting to see Morgoth taking her back under his wing and grooming her to play her part in the downfall of those dratted Elves.

I can almost hear the sadistic yet seductive MWAHAHA . . . echoing from the darkened sky as she flies off on her appointed mission. :eek:

~*~ pio :D

Durelin 09-30-2006 11:04 AM


Yes, sadistic and seductive...Uldor had best watch out! :p

Celuien 09-30-2006 11:39 AM


Originally Posted by piosenniel
And put you down for Ulwarth, if that's alright.

That's great. :)

I'll have the character description and such by Wednesday.

Glad to be on board!

Volo 09-30-2006 11:43 AM

Linked ~*~ Pio


Volo's character

NAME: Anydor
(ok, I'm really bad with those... No wonder, my own official name is exactly thirty letters long (I have only one firstname)) But, this guy could maybe be called Anydor (or anything)

AGE: 28

GENDER: male

WEAPONS: A spear, a shortsword and a little shield.

APPEARANCE: Anydor is a person you won't notice, if he's in a crowd. He is the most average Ulfing ever. He isn't tall nor short, not stout nor thin. His face is really expressionless, which makes him somewhat intimidating, but only if you have any business to him and that doesn't happen often. His skin is dark. Anydor's eyes are nearly black and so is his hair. He is about 5.4 feet tall. He dresses in brown woolen trousers and shirt, he also has a leather jacket ovet the shirt. He doesn't have an armour, but will wear one if instructed (Anydor isn't used to deal battles, so he feels no need for an armour, he does have his shield).

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: Well... Anydor knows how to fight, he isn't a master, but has practised all his life. Except fighting he isn't good at anything, carving maybe. He is a boring person nobody likes talking to a second time. Anydor does what is asked and is content with that, he is in no way bright, but isn't a person to fight first and fall first. To say something positive about Anydor, he does have great hearing, he knows most of the things happening around, but rarelly uses that information.

HISTORY: Anydor was born during a raid, his mother managed to hide and somehow ended up in Ulfang's village. Anydor doesn't have any memories of her or his father. He has lived outside and later got some respect by being a hard worker. He managed to survive to the point he could be of any use. Now he is Ulfang's personal guard, that suits Anydor fine, he isn't asked to do much, just send somebody out or give some poor beggar a lesson on respect. Nothing Anydor can't do.

Added info, just forgot, sure he has to have atleast so much information about his appearance. I'm not sure about the hight of Easterlings (but I think of 5.4 feet as a short full-grown man) or their clothes (but again, I see wool an important material for Easterlings)...


Volo's post

The sun was high and there was barely any wind. A rare phenomenon was happening, the guard of Ulfang's door was getting really irritated. Not that Anydor showed it. His water skin was empty, but he didn't dare leave his post: if Anydor was ordered to stand guard, he would. He thought a himself a bitter smile. It was one of those bad days: in the morning Anydor had accidentally broken one of his best knives, later he overheard from a passing man that the smith wouldn't sell anything to anybody for a reason Anydor didn't hear. And now he was standing under the burning sun longer that he should, just because the other guard, a new, carefree lad Anydor didn't know well, had somehow gotten himself free time by persuading Anydor to stand for a part of his change.

It was really crowdy in the village today, a merchant had brought something everybody wanted to see. Anydor couldn't care less. Then all of a sudden shouts were heared, some were screaming and some were cursing. In appeared that a thief was spotted and now a fight was starting, some men were gathouring around the thief. The thief, dressed in rough leather trousers and a leather jacket, he also wore a hat out of fur. He was broad even by Easterling standards, but a bit shorter than Anydor. The circle around him closened in. Anydor felt amused, this stuff didn't happen that often in a place where he could see. He even dared to stand on his toes and grin broadly. It wasn't his job to interfere with fights not concerning Ulfang or his posessions.

The thief drew a long slightly curved knife and handled it rather skillfully. The men around him backed a bit. The ones perfering violence more than others drew their knives, but before they could act the thief lunged for a gap between two confused men. He did not notice that a guard had come up behind the corner. The guard thrust his scimitar at the thief. Being a skillful fighter, the thief managed to dodge most of the blow, but still receaved a cut in his chest. He staggered few feet backwards and then ran behind the corner. The guard and some of the braver other men followed him.

Any more Anydor didn't see. The incident brightened his mood and he was thinking over the moves of the thief and what he himself would have done. While Anydor was thinking would he have done any better, a ragged dirty man walked slowly towards him. Anydor was mightly suprised when he noticed the beggar so close to him, he tossed the thoughts about the thief, losing consentration like this may be fatal. The beggar walked uncertainly towards Anydor and stopped about five feet from him.

"Please, mighty warrior, spare an old man few coins, bless you and bless the chieftain", said the beggar in a miserable voice and dropped on his knees. Anydor didn't show any response and stood with his armes crossed just like he did before. The beggar hesitated for a while and then desided to say, "My children are dying of hunger and my wife is ill. I beg you, just warrior, give this poor man a coin". Anydor lifted his eyebrow but otherwise stood still, it wasn't often that someone had the nerve to beg from him. He remembered the time when he was just a lad and begging to live aswell, he sure didn't beg from guards, especially guards of the chieftain. Something started bothering Anydor and he wanted to get rid of this fool. "Please..." groaned the beggar. And then Anydor was filled with sudden rage for some unknown reason, he quickly strode to the beggar and grabbed him by his raggs lifting him up easily, "Some nerve you've got. If you wish to have any nerve left in you for later then leave now you scum, your children can rot for all that I care". The beggar was stiff with fear eyes wide open. Anydor tossed him on the ground and laughed intimidatingly. The beggar crawled away. People were gazing at Anydor, but he didn't care. His bad mood had returned. He went back to his post and stood there for the rest of his change without any more strange things thinking only of different curses for the beggar.


piosenniel 09-30-2006 12:03 PM


Please go back to the APPEARANCE section and be more descriptive.

Your character can have the quality of not standing out in a crowd, but I want to know his height, hair color, eye color, how he dresses -- so that all us players can have a clear picture of him.

~*~ Pio, game moderator

piosenniel 09-30-2006 12:52 PM


Thanks for the edit. :)

~*~ Pio

Naria 09-30-2006 01:28 PM


You are on the list to post to this thread.

Please let us know ASAP which character you will be picking up.
Thanks for having me! This should prove to be an interesting and fun game! I would like to be an Ulfing, yes i think that will suit me best. Since I wasn't sure if I was to be accepted, I thought very little of a name or character description. I will pull out my trusty pen and trustier pad of paper and begin asap. :D

piosenniel 09-30-2006 01:37 PM


Great! I've put you on the list of Ulfings

~*~ Pio

Mithalwen 09-30-2006 02:14 PM

A gentle-elf's gentle-elf..

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Mith and Naria have both expressed an interest in this game. Mith is angling to be an elven page to my Envoy, a role I'm happy to create ad hoc...

Thank you!!! I shall start working on him..... if my lord has any requirements from his attendant .. let me know

Anguirel 10-01-2006 07:21 AM

Welcome on board Mith m'boy...

We have a possible loving father and son - CaptainofDespair for Ulfang and Feanor of the Peredhil for Uldor. Both of them are slightly undecided about time commitments as yet though.

CaptainofDespair, delete a PM or two - I've been trying to reply to you...

My character description will come tomorrow or tonight, but I'm still geographically sundered from it at the moment.

Anguirel 10-01-2006 09:43 AM

We have the last misbegotten brother! Folwren would like to play Ulfast.

piosenniel 10-01-2006 10:45 AM


Feanor of the Peredhil


I've put you on the CHARACTER/PLAYER list above and added your names to the list of posters for this thread.

CaptainofDespair 10-01-2006 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by Anguirel

CaptainofDespair, delete a PM or two - I've been trying to reply to you...

I have emptied my PM box, Anguirel.

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