The Firstborn??
 

I'm reading The Silmarillion for the first time. Since reading Of Aule and Yavanna, the seven fathers of the Dwarves has really been on my mind. I know Iluvatar intended for the Elves to be the Firstborn, but did he not give the Dwarves their own minds, separate of Aule, before the coming of the Elves. Even if the Dwarves were "asleep" until the Firstborn awoke, doesn't it still technically make the Dwarves the first? I know, I'm probably thinking too much of it, but does anyone have thoughts on the subject?

I've wondered that too (also reading the Silmarillion for the first time). Though did Iluvatar give the Dwarves their minds or did they just develop that way? He tells Aule that "they would not shrink from you" if they did not have their own minds, but I don't remember him specifically breathing independent life into them, so to speak.

The only explanation I can think of is that the Dwarves were not, technically, finished when they were "put to sleep" - they hadn't learned their language yet and were still very unclear in their understanding. Maybe you could think of it as being like a pregnancy - the Dwarves were started before the Elves, but weren't "born" (released from their caves, given language and so forth) until after the Elves. And since date of birth is more important in the world than the date of conception, the Elves would still be the Firstborn.

Or of course Iluvatar could just have meant "The Elves will still be the Firstborn because I want it that way." Sort of along the lines of "This has been willed where what is willed must be."

Interesting...
I guess the reason I assumed Iluvatar gave the Dwarves their own thought was this.
Aule doesn't have the power to give them their own minds. I guessed Iluvatar was the only one who could do so. Aule offered the Dwarves to Iluvatar, and he accepts them.

Yes, Iluvatar gave the Dwarves life. I think the distinction is that the Elves were created by Iluvatar before Aule made the Dwarves, even though the Fathers of the Dwarves were briefly awake before the Elves.
The Elves were also the first to permanently wake.
And, since they were writing the history they could call themselves whatever they wanted, one of the advantages of writing the history yourself. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

You're right - sorry about that, I didn't have the book in front of me and had forgotten that bit. Iluvatar did give them life, then.

And of course, like you pointed out, this is *Elvish* mythology. What do you suppose the Dwarvish version of the story would be? It would probably lean a lot less on the "Children of my adoption and children of my choice" angle, that's for sure.

I've no doubt the Dwarves have a completely different rendition of history! But they did not have the benefit of living in Valinor with the Valar, so the official version of the Elves is probably more accurate. Or at least more complete from the beginning.

I think the firstborn are called that because they were firstborn in the song of Iluvitar and the Ainur. If you think about it, the dwarves were made in the image of the elves, even though they woke to consciousness first. So that makes the elves firstborn either way.

-Maril

Thanks to everyone! I guess I never thought about the different angles between the Elves and Dwarves. I see what you mean about the Elves being created before the Dwarves, even though the Dwarves were awake temporarily.

thanks again, my mind is a little more at ease [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ March 25, 2002: Message edited by: alaklondewen ]

the word firstborn means (duh) the first to be born
so really, should it be the valar, rather than either dwarves or elves, who were the firstborn?
or if eru was not immortal, and was somehow "born" (or as born as a god can get!) wouldnt he technically be the firstborn?
an if it wasnt eru or the valar, it would be the maia! so really neither elves nor dwarves are the firstborn!

Im guessing that Illuvatar and the Valar were just there, they werent 'born'.

The elves must have been counted firstborn because they were created in the music of Illuvatar, while the dwarves werent

No. Eru was never born - he always was, is, and always will be. He created the Valar in his thought. They were not "born" in the way we are. 'Firstborn' is a term referring to those beings that were first born in Arda. Elves and men were known as the Children of Iluvatar, and the elves, being the first to awake of these, were called the Firstborn.