Doom of the Noldor
 

I'm reading the Silm for the second time and got to pondering about the Doom of the Noldor. It seems that the Doom also applied to the Elves that never came to Valinor. I know the Doom of the Noldor is that they will become weary of the world but the other Elves, the Avari? I believe, had nothing to do with the rebellion. So why doom them, they did nothing wrong. Do I have it wrong or does this just not seem fair? :confused:

Alchisiel

A few random thoughts:

The Doom specifically applies to the House of Feanor and those who follow them.
"On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also ."
The greater part of the Noldor (non-Feanorians) were presumably affected because they wouldn't turn back and allied themselves with the Feanorians.

Doriath and the green elves seem to be part of the curse but their ills might have been at least as great had the Noldor not come. Recall Morgoths offensive as they were entering Beleriand. And Cirdan would have been swiftly driven from Eglarest and Brithombar.

I was thinking more of the elves that never went to Valinor why involve them? King Thingol wanted nothing to do with Feanor and his sons so why did the doom involve him and his kingdom?

So what you are saying is that because the elves that didn't leave ME were friendly with the Noldor that they fell under the same doom? That doesn't seem fair.

Now! Didn't your mother ever tell you "life isn't fair." :D

But I'm really just suggesting that their fates were more intertwined with the Noldor then part of the Curse. Without the Noldor all of Beleriand but Doriath was in the process of being "Morgothized." If they chose to stay in Beleriand it would have to be in some way in cooperation with the houses of the Noldor and hence would have to be effected by Noldor success/failure.

And in a way the Noldor did have some positive effect. By battling Morgoth they essentially contained his influence to an area northeast of Middle-earth and outside of the Middle-earth of the Second and Third Ages, presumably making that area relatively more safe then it would have been.

But one could argue the net Noldor effect for dwarves was negative, despite great technilogical advances for them, learning from the Noldor.

Didn't it have to do with the Silmarili? If I remember correctly (I'm not at home at the moment, so I can't look it up in my copy of the Silm), when Beren gave the Silmaril to Thingol, he became obsessed with it, "for such was its power." And I seem to remember something about "any who so even named those blessed jewels in desire were caught up in the Oath, and moved a great power from slumber." (That's not a direct quote, but it's something like that.)

Meh, I'm tired and overly warm. Don't mind me.

The Noldor's exile to Middle Earth had to do with the Silmarils -- remember Melkor killed Finwe and stole the jewels -- which was the reason they made war on the dark lord.

No the Silmarils had nothing to do with it -- i quote:

So you see it is all due to kin-slaying -- sad but true.

I just don't understand why the Avari become weary of the world. They were never in Valinor so why does the doom pertain to them? :confused: I just don't get it. The Avari were never involved in the kinslaying or the Silmarils so why does the doom of the Noldor apply to them? Why would Iluvatar doom all his children to the same fate?

It is said that the Avari were corrupted by Morgoth -- alot of them became orcs. As to why they became weary of the world -- heheh elves tend to do that alot. I don't think Illuvitar would doom his children needlesly Alchisiel.

Men would dominate the world. The Quendi want status quo in Middle-earth preserved, as seen in Galadriel's use of Nenya in Lothlórien. Men, on the other hand, would change the world. It's partly due to Eru's gift . . .

Maybe it's living for so long in one place? Everyone wants a change.
What's more, the enchanting tales of a realm, the door to which has at last been opened.

By George I think I've got it!!!
 

I've read the Akallabeth and I think I understand the weariness of the Elves now.


Basically I understand it like this: The Eldar live for so long that the world becomes almost a torment for them or a weariness if you get my meaning. And that's why they go to the Undying Lands/Aman/Blessed Realm/Valinor because their weariness can be lessened there. Do I have it? :D

Firstly, I have to answer the Thingol/Doriath question. It says specifically in Silm. that it was when he asked Beren to bring back the Silmaril that Doriath fell under the doom.

The sindar were cursed because they had contact with the noldor, and the same goes for the edain. The avari, well... wouldn't you be tired after living for 100,000 years? :D

All elves faded but it wasn't due to the doom of the noldor. Over time the fea or spirit of the elves consumed their hroar or body. This was because of a weakness of the body due to the general marring of Arda by Melkor. The elves were able to pospone this fading in Aman due to the different passage of time there. If any elf remained in Middle Earth they would fade. The elves in ME became weary of the world due to all the death there, while they remained unchanged all other living creatures would die. This after a while is depressing and so they become weary of the world.

--Voralphion

Really? Could you tell me where you found this information, so I can read up on it?

Something else that is interesting is that the Doom of the Noldor does not seem to be limited to Elves. The Silm says that Huan too fell under this doom because he faithfully served one of Feanor's sons.

It's in HoME X Morgoth's Ring

Thanks... now I have to go buy HOME. ::counts pennies::