When You Are Oppressed, Or Ten Weighty Reasons for Teenagers and Their Parents
 

Recently I was complained to by PM - certain parents laid down a ban for their child to come here.

The thread to follow is a result of my reflections upon the subject. As the last thing we wish for is the war between parents and children around the BD haunting issue (there must be a tension enough even without it, in case my MTV videoclip-based deductions may be trusted, o'course ;)), I think that parleys should be started off.

As far as I can judge, visiting BD is verily wholesome, not vice versa, and for the following ten reasons (or, when teenager (or anyone, for the matter) comes to BD, s/he achieves/learns):

1. Improvement of writing skills (anyplace)
2. Vocabulary improvement (the Books, RPG)
3. Basics of literary criticism (the Books, Sil public forum)
4. Basics of philology (The Books, Sil public forum)
5. Basics of historiography (The Books, Sil public forum)
6. Imrpovement of creative skills (RPG)
7. Improvement of typing skills (anyplace)
8. Basics of business language (The BD - announcements)
9. Improvement of communicative skills (Middle Earth Mirth, Novices & Newcomers)
10. Basics of cinematographic criticism (The Movies)

Of course, the place visited - virtue got pair relation is optional. The whole mix of it comes as one package from visiting any corner of the BD. But it is more concrete to have them separated. I believe that once parents consider the list given above (but you should be calm and clever, without nerves and histerics, no yelling, preferable behavioral pattern - convincing and sure tone of voice and steady eye contact), all prohibitions may be withdrawn.

Any ideas which may extend the list are highly welcome, as the list is hasty and from the top of my head (I like 'top ten' indexing, but the more, the better).

Just promise to let your eyes rest for ten minutes every hour (to avoid sight damage), and to make some excercise every two (and thus keep away from dangers your backbone is exposed to as a result of constant sitting). Also make sure that homework comes first - after all, said may need a BD as a resource - when one has a paper on Tolkien to write, per instance). It would be wise to keep said promises too.

cheers

Keeps you off drugs LOTR is one reason I never did drugs

I think this site is good for all the reasons you said as well as others which I cant think of now

ok
1)no drugs(anything lotr)
2)debating skills(a fe topics this one included)
3)Problem Solving(quiz room)
4)Logical reasoning (cryptic clues)

I can totally relate to this. My brother and I had countless debates with our mum as to whether our LotR addiction (and with it, The Downs) does more harm than good to us.

But in this forum I have learned to analyze even minor details of the story, which is especially helpful since we discuss Literature in English class.

More to come.

11. Improvement of logic/rhetoric (Books/Novs & Newcomers/whenever there is a point to be debated)

~~~~~ above was a cross posting and I don't feel like editing it ~~~~~

But also you learn to keep "purity" in works. IE, keeping fanfiction/RPG canon.

Also, discussing the books in depthly cultivates the mind and imagination. Hanging around on these forums forces one to think about the books, as well as putting their thoughts accurately into words. In a word, it helps you appreciate literature.

My parents banned me, and the ban is still on.

That was a year ago.

Heren

I am in an interesting postion here. One of my offspring is a current, active poster who started out with one account and now has another. This poster's name shall go unspoken, since he/she wisely wishes to maintain an independent identity. (I even asked 'permission' to respond to this thread. :rolleyes: ) I am unsure if there are other Downs families where more than one generation is posting.

I actually encouraged my offspring to try out this site after seeing the movies and starting the books. My reasons for doing so included many of those points you and others have cited above. Both as a mom and a former librarian and history prof, I have been incredibly impressed with the way many have "blossomed" in terms of their writing and analytic skills. Some have stayed on the site; others have gone on to other things, some of which were connected with writing and creative expression. I firmly believe that posting here can be a positive thing: both as a way to relax and to learn some things that have relevence at school and work.

As a parent, the kind of things I would be concerned about would be these: having schoolwork suffer; spending too much time in front of the computer so things like friendships, family life, or physical activity are shortchanged; and making sure kids follow the general rules about safety on the net. Other than that, I don't see a downside. Yeah, I know.....I sound like a mom! There is a lot of Sam Gamgee in me.

Is the issue really the Downs, or is it "time management"? Sometimes parents will respond positively if you offer to put limits on yourself, e.g., only after homework, or only a one-hour slot or thirty minute slot "X" times per week. Or do your parents simply not understand that this is a family friendly site, unlike a lot of other Tolkien ones I've seen? Or is it just their unfamiliarity with Tolkien? It's one thing seeing your child spend hours doing something that you understand and appreciate--watching baseball, for example. It's another to have them involved with something unfamiliar to you. Maybe the first thing to do is to find out their objection before deciding how to respond.

I agree that the problem could be the time. My mother thinks I spend too much time on the net, but I don't think she has a problem with this site. I myself can only find positive things about the site. Everyday I learn something new about LotR, I get to test that knowledge in the Quiz Room. I also get to practise my english. Being norwegian, I don't get many chances to do that.

I would say that the trans-age trans-culture communication thing is a big plus... and given that LOTR so often appeals to people who have hit adolescence with an almighty thump...... it might even be a life-saver ..... I might have had a much happier and less isolated time in my teens had the net been around then .... lone geek ....... Teenagers are notorious for not talking to their own parents... I guess it is natural for parents to fear that their kids will get lured by some predatory pervert ... but the net can provide a wonderful outlet for self expression and a source of support.....

Alas, I know of this parental dislike all too well. My parents fully support most of what I do, but I'm not entirely sure they understand my fascination with Tolkien's world. I'm pretty sure, as well, that they don't exactly like how much time I spend online, but as I spend more time offline and fully in the "real world" with friends, family, and others, they don't complain much.

The way I see it, being an active member on this forum has improved my communication and analytical thinking skills. I am more able to pick up on subtleties in writing and respond accordingly. My thoughts may not be much more organized, but my ways of expressing them are.

Also, being in constant communication from people of all walks (and generations) of life is a very interesting experience. Not many highschoolers get to speak to and create friendships with people from all over the world.

Fea

Here's one: The Quiz Room teaches sharing and taking turns

Not something to be on the list, but just a kindergarden benefactor for the quiz room. There's a system, and you follow it. And if you do something against the system, you fix it and don't do it again! Teaches responcibility. Yes, most of those things on the list I've benefited. But, my parents don't strike me down about the downs. I have a reason. I get good grades. If anyone here on the downs is getting better grades, especially in English, tell your parents. Say, "I got this because I learned. It's a place where I'm introducted to many intelectual things!" And if they say no, go on anyway ;) However, if you aren't getting good grades, and your parents say it's cause of the downs, just say "I've been getting bad grades because I've been cuttin class to hang out by the (insert local gas/convience store here)" Your parents will be concerned about your cutting class, and won't have time to worry about the Downs ;)

If I'm not beging a good help, I apologize.


Oh, and also, the Downs (especially RPGS) helps spelling!

to post by Child of Seventh Age :)
 

My very words:

But the issue is really deeper than it seems at the first glance.

I do believe that if anyone restricted by tutelage of parents not sharing Tolkien addictiveness (and I am grieved to point that all of us are Tolkien addicts to an extent) wishes to spend X hours at the screen, the general strategy is to show people in charge that time spent at the Downs is wholesome in itself, regardless the issues, and more so than merely pleasant.

(- eat the green stuff, its wholesome
- but it is not tasty, I'd rather go for candy
- no candies, they rot your teeth
- why, oh why all the food that is wholesome should be absolutely insipid!)

Your very words:

Alas, but the list of unfamiliar things which allegedly are pleasent (at first), and then bring harm may be extended to include drugs, alcohol, smoking and other unhealthy activities. So any activity which is not understood by guardian but is apparently pleasing the ward may be included into the category in one sweep of parental judgement. The logical pair - Drinking/Tolkien fascinates my ward = Drinking/Tolkien is dangerous in the long run (alas, but I've seen real life cases).

Besides, with all this media talk about nerds, weirds and maniac - worshippers who over-read Tolkien, dressed up as elves (dwarves, 15 foot rabbits) and did horrid things make parents who never read Tolkien uneasy. So the strategic battle of 'bring your parent to Professor's altar' may be seen by parent in question as highly suspicious, and may make them stress on the 'altar' in particular (though we do not have altars, don't we?), and if started from advertising Tolkien as Tolkien. That is the second step, I believe :)

But first step must be (I believe) letting guardian see that activity which is pleasant is also wholesome. After letting them grow accustomed with the idea, one may come out with - 'and that's not just because, but for the Professor', or with 'Now as we all know how much do I get from this site, do you mind we all read the Books?'

But all of the above is for the people who are banned from the site. If you already have mutual admiration society to support you, no need to make 'buy this hoover for only 99.99 and you'll get...' type of fool of yourself

(- hey, mom (dad, uncle, yer honour, reverend Brown), I've found the candy which is tasty and wholesome!
- Can't be, there is no wholesome candies!
- But look, here, look at the list of its properties which are good for you
- What list? Lemme see, um, er, yes, but is it, really?
- And the list is approved of by Co7A, who is parent and teacher herself, and this H-I chap who made it is only 31.3% geek and works in a bank, and is a swimmer and has a Master's degree (I know I'm vain, but it for the sake of the Case :p) And I've already done my homework, made 10 pull-ups on the bar out there and focused on Mr Grey's car, which is 200 yards away for the whole of ten minutes!
- Allright, since it is so wholesome, er, um, I suppose you may have it...)

It was all advertisement, after all. (and yet, advertisements are not convincing if there is less than 80% truth to them ;))

Some time thence:

(- Um, kid, you are eating those candies all the time, and it does you good - you seem more litarate, and homework is always done, and biceps are growing, as you exercise - would you let us have some too?)

Well I guess I spent too much time in Middle Earth but since I had my nose in a book all the time they assumed it was ok......... lol ...strange they didn't really look into what I was reading and somethings were way more unsuitable than Tolkien... just somehow reading = good computer = bad........

Actually I studied linguistics because of Tolkien...... and if you want to add to the list of responsible adults I have a couple of degrees in literature and a post-grad teaching cert, and taught in a university .... however some might think my drinking habits leave something to be desired ..... but a glass of red a day is more or less compulsory these days..... ;)

Actually show your parents some of the discussion threads.... I bet they will be impressed even if they haven't read Tolkien ... I mean despite the lit. degrees I was completely awestruck by the level of some of the threads here.... they will probably make the downs compulsory!!!

Oh I only ranked 21% geek .... but then there were a lot questions only applicable/understandable to Americans..

I conveniently avoided most parental problems by joining the Barrow Downs three days before my 18th birthday. I had not spent much time online prior to that. Now I am a part of email lists, post regularly here, have sampled other forums, surf using Google, and instant message with YIM, all on a daily basis. (And that's in addition to burying myself in Word for hours on end, writing fiction.) The 'Downs was my first real internet addiction, and therefore the one most logically to blame for all following ones. :p If you kiddies want to scare your parents, tell them that Tolkien can lead to a life of staying on the computer till 6 in the morning, rather than out partying till 6! ;) Oh wait, I'm the only one who is scared by that....

To be serious, I suspect the most postive aspect of the 'Downs from a parental perspective would be the communicative and debating skills. You don't need the internet to become proficient in writing skills such as grammar and spelling, but to be able to put these skills to such regular use is invaluable. Forums in general, and high standard forums such as the BD in particular, present a great challenge to express, explain, and debate opinions and ideas. Daily exercise.

I only scored 15.77909% on that Geek test, incidentally. In my opinion it was too computer and Sci Fi based. I am sure I'd score much higher on a more literature/fantasy based geek test.

I have to say that I'm really impressed by the things I've seen on the 'Downs which have been written by younger members - you all deserve a big round of applause! This is especially encouraging when all you seem to hear these days is how teenagers are 'delinquents' etc. I always thought this was nonsense and you are proof of this. I trained as a teacher (didn't go into it as a career though, it scared me), and if I was teaching now, I'd recommend this site to any of my students who were into Tolkien.

In my current job I see a lot of papers about technology and education, and how greater use of t'Internet (sorry, I've been watching Peter Kay...) is to be encouraged, as it's seen as a way of getting 'disengaged' people involved in society. But I also see how many people are scared of computer technology simply because they don't understand it. As an example, there are a scarily high number of people in the UK who refuse to learn about IT, even if they are offered free use of a PC. So if anyone has non-IT literate parents who are worried about online activity, I'd say that first of all, try to get them learning about what fun it can be themselves (get them looking for bargains online, that usually works!). Or simply be open and let them see what you're doing online and that it's nothing scary! But, if all else fails, I'd say be patient and go along with what they want, because it's never good to upset your parents (sorry, I know that sounds all grown-up!!!).

I was lucky in that my parents indulged, or perhaps tried to ignore, my various obsessions. They actually had two Tolkien obsessed children, and encouraged things like D&D evenings at our house. I suppose they were happy that none of us were getting involved in crime or anything dangerous.

My mother holds fully to the "For all you know you could be talking to some 40-year-old pervert petifile!" thing. I did tell her that this is a very family-friendly site, and that any problems of the creepy-git variety are quickly dealt with, but she gave me a patented maternal look and just said "You just be careful" in this tone she's got.

Fea

Printable version :)

I have to say that my experience on the BD as a teenager has been overall an excellent one. I know there are many parents out there who are afraid of letting their children get involved with online forums, but when it's something like the BD, being involved online can be good for the child.

After reading RPGs that I have taken part in, I've noticed how tremendously I've improved in my creative writing skills over a year's time. I spent hours on those RPGs, using a thesaurus to perfect my writing, and refusing to stop perfecting it until I reached my high standards of what I hoped would be a professional quality of writing. And it paid off. Not only have I noticed improvements in writing stories, but I can now write poetry real well (something I used to hate).

Not only has the BD improved my creative writing, but also the quality of my essay writing, particularly persuasive. Anytime I wanted to argue an issue, I wrote carefully, supporting each of my opinions with facts, something that is essential to essay writing.

Obviously, the BD improved my overall knowledge of Tolkien's works. Reading different topics in the forum have helped me understand many details of his books better than before and I've learned to appreciate all Tolkien's hard work and effort he put into these books.

And lastly, BD has improved my self-esteem. Being active in something online that's actually eduactional, has made me feel quite good about myself. I'm able to converse with people I normally would never meet about something I love.

My parents have never been bothered by the fact that I enjoy taking part in online forums, though my mom has threatened to ban me several times simply because my constant visits to the BD (visits that were hours at a time) began to affect my schoolwork, especially during those months when my teachers gave ridiculous amounts of homework along with my dance team competitions (which is why, unfortunately, I was forced to give up RPGing completely).

So, in summary, the BD is a healthy experience for anyone of any age, as long as you don't become so involved, it affects your real life.

Oh, how familiar that sounds:rolleyes: . My mother is convinced that anyone who speaks to me over the internet is a criminal. Mostly I just growl and point out how strict the BW is.

Honestly, this site has improved me exponentially, and not just in with my vocabulary and writing skills. It's actually gotten me to be more social in real-world situations, something I don't take to easily.

I have forgotten to include development of social skills in my hurry at my last post in his thread. I have never really used the Internet much before the Downs, but now I am glad to be able to communicate with people from all over the world with whom I share the same passion for Tolkien's works. I have also been able to discuss non-Tolkien things with a Downer. It is really interesting for me to discover others' opinions on things, and that has led me to learn to respect the views of others, especially if they are different from my own.

But alas, it does seem in my case that the reason behind disagreements between me and my mother is her lack of knowledge on LotR. She hasn't really watched the movies nor read the books, but watching the movie trailers she automatically deduced that the story involves a lot of violence. She fails to see what interests us so much, so she thinks that LotR is rather not worth the time and energy and whatever we "waste" on it. My brother and I try to convince her to see LotR for what it really is, and I do hope she will find time to.

Have you ever tried explaining the internet to vintage parents? It was bad enough expalining the video recorder.... I really tried with my mamma but I don't think she ever really grasped it and in the end I rationed her to one technological question a day ...."How does an internet work? " "Don't know - but don't really know how the telephone works either "... .... she was possibly the only person in the world who dictated their email... but my pa did go on a course of Computing for geriatrics last year ..... didn't do a lot of good really...

No, Mith, my mamma does the same. She's learning though (sort of). I love it when she's online (not often) and a popup ad shows up. She tends to freak out and yell for help, thinking she accidentally broke the computer. :rolleyes:

And one of the two times I've been grounded over the past 2 years involved the internet. I guess my parents don't like my 'addiction' because they don't really understand the internet, or the LotR. Mixing the two? That must terrify them. :)

Fea

My mom doesnt care...as long as Im not doing drugs or being a bad kid(which is virtually impossible my conscience is too overpowering) Anyway, she likes it when i tell her about discussions on the downs (or at least pretends to) and then sometimes she tells me what she thinks if it is a good point i post it... I might go search and see what ideas are hers theres only one or two but I know theyre there somewhere....

Very interesting Morsul, my parents feel the same. My older brother is one of those annoying typical teenagers who lives in pubs and drinks himself to death at any chance possible. Where as I spend most of my time browsing these forums, reading books and generally being Geeky. But I am proud of this fact, and am often challenged like so;

Some moron: Why, do you not go to Part-EES and get Dunk?
Me: I have better ways to spend my time.
Moron: Wouldn't you rather go out and have a life?
Me: No, not really.
Mron: Why?
Me: For many reasons, firstly, I hate real life, so escapism is a rally neat way to get away form it all without spending money on holidays or drink. Secondly, Alcohol tastes like something that has fist passed though the digestive system of a cat. Thirdly, so called 'pop' music and 'dance' music makes me want to vomit out my entire digestive system. Satisfied?
Moron: I like pointy things...
Me: ............ Ok.......

As you can imagine, I did not go to a very good high school.
But I got by and so came to the land of Aman.

I know the feeling, Hookbill. I was recently introduced to a guy who insists that he's met me before, although I know we've never met before the day that we well... met. He asked the one who introduced us whether I do a lot of partying, because he (the new guy) was insistant that he'd seen me before at a party somewhere, and that entire meeting resulted in a lasting "arguement" over how its "unbelievable" that I don't EVER go to parties. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do any other stupid stuff that goes on at parties like that, and I have minimal tolerance for stupid people. So tell me again why I would go to parties where stupid people get drunk, smoke up, and listen to *shudder* their own taste in music?

My "life" is generally as a "good kid", because even though I do stupid stuff, its not stupid illegal, stupid immoral, stupid gonna hurt someone stuff. It's more the firing-bottle-rockets-out-of-bedroom-windows stupid kinds of stuff (not that I've ever actually done that :p), which makes me wonder WHY my parents hate me spending so much time on my nerdy hobbies. I could either be here, on the 'Downs, persuing intellectual discussions and working on my writing and social skills... or I could stay out 'til the wee hours of the morning more often. I should tell my parents that... or not. I can just imagine how that would go over!

Fea

Since we're sharing stories
 

my best friend is a smoker/drinker/partyer...Its odd we've been best friends for about 11 years and we're so different.

But he came home one night from a party at like 2am and his mom was yelling at him to be more like me(although if everyone were like me then nobody would know life existed outside the house I only leave to go to work or to go shopping.

so I can agree with Fea

and this is an every day conversation with my friend

Ill have to use that cat argument next time we argue about that :D

Fea ... perhaps that guy met my friend lol......

To coin chat-speech... RotFLMAO. Tyler (the guy) certainly didn't meet me, since I've been to one party where there was drinking, and I left just before the drinking started, but just after ripping a guy to shreds when he said something offensive to me. He hasn't talked to me in a year. :D And I KNOW Tyler wasn't at that party.

I've had that happen. Have you ever noticed that, regardless of what the situations are, you tend to get compared to people around you? I loved this conversation:

D: But everyone does it. You don't know how to have fun. You should be more like A.
Fea: Not everyone, and my fun is different than yours.
D: You don't, but that's about it.
Fea: You're forgetting E, K, K, S, J, K, A, J, and K. None of us do.
D: I don't know any of them.
Fea: I expect I could fill several books with what you don't know.
D: Huh?

My parents' latest comparison: You should be more like S... when's she's not at work, she's out with friends, not online. My response tends to be: I have a job, when I'm not at work, I'm out with friends, and I'm only online when I've got nothing better to do. *sigh* Parents...

Fea

That is what I've been trying to explain to people! But they don't seem to understand why I turn down a party to read Russian literature and discuss LotR on the internet with people I've never met.

My mum, nervous as she is about my proclivity for the internet, she would prefer this to the drugs/alchohol/insessant partying/ect that most of my peers take part in.

For my part, I just find that the Downs is so much more fun and fulfilling than a group of loud, inebriated individuals listening to bad music.

My mother used to despair of my untidiness, asking why I couldn't be more like her sisters step daughters ..... years later I was able to ask whether she had wanted me to be more like the suicidally depressed one or the imprisoned junkie one..... :rolleyes:

Not that I would encourage anyone to start worshipping at the altar of Bacchus and certainly not to excess .... but I do wonder what on earth Hookbill was drinking..........

I'm sure others will agree with me - all the 'cool kids' (by cool, this means partying, drinking, etc) you knew at school are now the ones who seem to be messed up! While all the slightly strange kids, the geeks and the bookworms, they have all done well.

Parents though, they'll still be worrying about you when you're in your thirties, mark my words! And they still maither* you. Mine still ask me where my coat is if I turn up without one, and clean my house when they visit...

Anyway, I think Hookbill had been drinking Pernod. Ugh. *Shudder*

*Maither - means nag, basically.

What Mackes you skay that? (falls over)

My mom is a BIG nagger. She worries about everything. It gets annoying sometimes, but I know she loves me. My dad doesn't really nag, but he's always big on giving warnings on things involving finance, work, and school. You know, kind of pointing out no-nos ahead of time.

I joined the Downs as a teen. I was almost 20, but still, I was a teen, still in school, and living at home- well within my mother and father's nagging jurisdiction, yet I did not receive a single warning or nag about the Downs (except those concerning the percentage of my day I spent on the site, which at times was substantial).

My parents figured that I wasn't stupid and that I could take care of myself. If I would've joined the site and immediately started handing out my full name, SSN, credit card #, and address then something bad might've happened but my parents knew I wouldn't do that (and if I did do it, they would tell me "tough luck, it's your own fault and you know it").

Unless you make bad decisions The Barrow-Downs is very safe. In fact, it's probably safer than going to a mall. You could get into a wreck on the way to the mall. You could get robbed, raped, or abducted in the parking lot. Also, I've been a cashier in the past and if someone came through my line with a store specific credit card I knew a couple ways to really mess their finances up if I wanted to (but don't worry, I doubt the other cashiers ever could think of the method let alone pull it off).

Plus, you'd think a site dedicated to quality literature would have an extremely low number of stalkers when compared to chat rooms, gaming forums, and other places on the web.

When it comes to the amount of time spent on the Downs, obviously work and school should not be kicked to the curb to make room, but if all tasks have been completed and it is time for recreation then why not spend a large amount of time on the Downs? It can be quite beneficial for reasons listed above in other posts. It's certainly better than lots of the things I see kids doing for fun.

Anyway, my parents were always happy to see me doing things in my free time that required thinking and reading. Nobody has anything against those two things, right?

(ironically, after saying school should come first- this post took longer than I thought so I'm late for class now) :p

I totally concur with your points H-I!

As I've observed from my stay here at the Downs my literary criticism here and at school has much improved. Of course my many thanks go to the elder members of this forum mainly because they have shown great confidence in the points they make in certain posts, backed up by plausible information etc. etc. Don't worry I won't make the sob-story out of this post :D

A week or two ago I reviewed my very first ramblings on the Downs...much like looking back on a journal so you can imagine how embarrased I am with reactions like "Did I write that!?" and so forth...but as it progressed I found my more recent postings more purposeful and found myself delving more into more serious posts...and leaving doggy ears in me dictionary (heh).

I am sorry for the kids that were banned from the Downs--no one can argue a parent's perrogative but I believe this rich community may contribute in many ways to education mainly in Tolkienology....er English Literature.

I remain a faithful member of the Downs. Though it is a slightly goofy at times its academia-like atmosphere remains a small but imperative part of my interests and schooling....I WILL bookmark that list H-I

I don't mind the occasional pastis (memories of very hot evenings at french terrace bars) but it should be mixed with a lot of water and sipped slowly.... The teenage tendency to mix it with Blackcurrant cordial and slug it tends to lead to "talking to God on the great white telephone" (and ruins the palate)...
so a very bad idea ...

My mum gets upset at me if I give out info like "I have a younger sister". :rolleyes: Seriously...who could stalk me with that? Not that I pay attention to her or anything...I'm not stupid.

:rolleyes: I probably belong to that weird minority of parents who would like my child to spend more time at the computer, but she hardly would (too much into sport).
I would mostly wish her to practise her English, and maybe some other skills previously mentioned.

I am very fortunate in that my parents (especially my mother) approve of the Barrow-Downs. They realize that I'm not going to do anything stupid like give out my real name, my age, my phone number, or any location more specific than the city and state I live in (there are over 200,000 people in it, so it's not like I'd be easy to track down just going on that.) Due to my time here I've become a much better typist (I've gone from being absolutely terrible to only moderately bad :p) and a better writer (I now cringe to see some of my early posts). I've really become more outgoing from my time here, too. Normally I am very shy and hardly talk around people I don't know well, but not so here. I've also learned tons about different parts of the world and other cultures due to the fact that the BDer's come from all different places. The 'Downs is an education in itself!

Long live akhtene! Praise her with great praise!
Cuio i akhtene anann! Aglar’ni akhteniannath
Praise her with great praise, akhtene of the great mind!
Daur a Berhael, Conin en Annűn! Eglerio!
Praise her!
Eglerio!
A laita te, laita te! Andave laituvalmet!
Praise her!
Cormacolindor, a laita tárienna!
Praise her! The thoughtful heart, praise her with great praise!’

*Anyone versed in elvish is welcome to correct all of those 'eglerio'-s (which I have a feeling do not apply to singular and feminine at all) and other similar stuff and things...

And, of course, nice to see akhtene back

Partying re: nothing bad in having little fun, as long as one has fun. And truly, 'my fun is different from yours' Men may long remember your words, Ioreth (um, sorry, I mean, Fea)! For there is hope in them

And yet, and yet we down here, (yours truly at least) are for a good middle line, or, wossname, golden mean, divine proportion and all of them strange things wise [wo]men do. Or:

All of the parties involved should compromise, as far as I see things, but sometimes there is a need for a little push and shove. Democracy we live in, and all are equals, but, recalling particular farm of fame, some of us are more equal than others, and in the parent-child dichotomy parent is exclusevely more equal (by far, by very very far). Hence the need of the push mentioned, and what is a better push than simple letting the opposite side in? Conqeurors came and went, but Ankh-Morpork stood where it stands...

So, do not merely complain, be more constructive! What was that c[h]at thing about, eh? Yours truly enjoys his beer and a little wine sometimes, so hush about digestive systems and panleukopenia of feline family members, pray :D

Besides, wine drinking has a lot of tradition behind it. Letting alone quite obvious Christian connections, almost all of the pre-Cristian religions considered wine as sacred (Sun worship, usually). Not to forget Thranduil's good elves and especially the butler, Galion, who's preferences in the matter allowed Bilbo to free dwarves (dear mods, I'm a sneak, I can keep any topic Tolkien related :p).

Excessive application of anything is what's really harmful.

cheers

Hilarious. Bravo!

Ah but they should be careful ... because there comes a time when they are aged and infirm and the roles are reversed :D