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-   -   Ainur marriages and what comes after (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=11973)

Dûrbelethwen 06-16-2005 12:22 PM

Ainur marriages and what comes after
 
I know most of the Valar were married and Professor Tolkien mentions at least one Maiar couple. I also read in another thread that originally the Maiar were supposed to be the descendants of the Valar. Since that idea was later changed does anyone know if there were any children resultant from Ainur marriages (with the exception of Melian). Thank you.
Sorry if this subject has already been brought up but I could not find anything like it when searching

Anguirel 06-16-2005 12:26 PM

Luthien is the only example of Ainur offspring we can now accept as canonical.

However, in earlier concepts Eonwe was Manwe and Varda's son, and Gothmog was Morgoth's son (Eru knows how...). I believe Arien may also have been someone's daughter at one point.

Thinlómien 06-20-2005 05:53 AM

This is close to another question I was wondering while reading Sil. Why did valar marry at all? They were like sisters and brothers (without gender) and then they married... Strange.

Mithalwen 06-20-2005 06:19 AM

I think they were spiritual pairings of kindred spirits with the male and female aspects providing balance. This may be why Tolkien refers to them as "spouses" rather than "married" ?

Anguirel 06-20-2005 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen
I think they were spiritual pairings of kindred spirits with the male and female aspects providing balance.

Kindred spirits? What about Aule and Yavanna? But I think your balance theory hits the nail on the head...

Mithalwen 06-20-2005 11:55 AM

Well since I was posting from work I didn't have the books ... :D However remember that certain of the valar were regarded as siblings because they were coeval in the though of Eru? I think the spouses were the vala who were complementary . Aule and Yavanna are both creative it is just Aule is creative wiht minerals and Yavanna with plants so their needs conflict at times.. ;) Also at the Maiar level of Uinen reining in Osse.

As for Melian - she had to take in a physical body to marry thingol and produce Luthien. Otherwise the forms of the Valar were less tangible if I understood correctly... a kind of clothing in order that they might be perceived by the children of Iluvatar... can't help thinking of them as holograms!!! Since the Istari also had to take on "proper" bodies, I guess they would be theoretically capable of begetting children - but then since they got stuck with the bodies of ancient beardie weirdies and in temperament were grumpy, creepy, and "I talk to the trees" odd.... I think it is very much an academic question ;)

Anguirel 06-20-2005 12:00 PM

Ah, but we don't know about the Blue Wizards! Brilliant fashion sense, flowing raven locks, Eastern promise...hmmm...maybe we've discovered the origins of the mysterious and dreaded Herumor!

Luthien_ Tinuviel 06-25-2005 10:53 PM

Or maybe we've figured out what Variags are.


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