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-   -   Gamgees at The Party? (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=15658)

TheGreatElvenWarrior 08-19-2009 08:59 PM

Gamgees at The Party?
 
I was listening to the Lord of the Rings last night and when it got to the part where Sam was talking about how he and the Gaffer were very much looking towards Bilbo and Frodo's party. This made me wonder if they were actually there. The main reason is, there are genealogies in the Appendices that have all of the guests to the Party underlined, but, funnily enough, Sam and his father are not. In fact, there is actually no evidence in the Fellowship of the Ring that they were there either. It never says that Sam and the Gaffer ever went to the party, I would think that such a major character would go to the Party or at least have it mentioned somewhere, but I could not find one sentence mentioning any Gamgees at the Party. So, how do we know, or not know if there were any Gamgees at Bilbo's 111?

Inziladun 08-19-2009 09:07 PM

As the Gaffer had been Bilbo's gardener for many years ( and received birthday-presents from Bilbo ), and Sam was such a close friend of Frodo, it's hard to imagine them not being there at all.
My feeling would be they were likely present for the Party, but not at the restricted 144 guest dinner-party, which seemed to be limited to relations of Bilbo's.

Morsul the Dark 08-19-2009 09:17 PM

Well I think the 144 were actually limited to people Bilbo wasn't overly fond of to insult them with his final joke.

TheGreatElvenWarrior 08-19-2009 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark (Post 608423)
Well I think the 144 were actually limited to people Bilbo wasn't overly fond of to insult them with his final joke.

Frodo was there. Bilbo liked Frodo.

Thinlómien 08-20-2009 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior (Post 608425)
Frodo was there. Bilbo liked Frodo.

Yes but it was also Frodo's birthday, so of course he was there. I don't think it was only about people he didn't like: he liked some of them probably, and disliked some. It was maybe just the society and the nosy family as an "institution" he didn't like, and probably he didn't care much for most of the guests.

I agree the Gamgees were probably in the party but not in the 144 as Inziladun says, and that also explains the absences of the underlinings in the family trees and the mentions of them in the party (since the narration is concentrated mostly in the 144 tent).

Selmo 08-20-2009 03:53 AM

Reading the description of the preparations for the Party, it seems that everyone in Hobbiton and the surrounding area was invited and that would have included the Gamgees.

However, the Gamgees would certainly not have been among the elite group of 144. That was reserved for relatives and special guests of high social status. It is simply not done to invite one's employees or servants to such an event, even if they are close freinds.

Bilbo and Frodo would not have counted the Gamgees as friends. As good employers. they may have respected them, liked them and enjoyed their company, but not as friends. The social gap between them was too great. A true freindship between Frodo ans Sam did not develop untill the quest to destroy The Ring was well advanced.
Think of the party that Frodo held on his last day in Bag End. Merry, Pippin and Fatty Bolger were there, but Sam was not invited, even though he was to join the others on a dangerous journey soon afterwards.

.

Mithalwen 08-20-2009 10:38 AM

I think that Sam would have been less likely to be so attached to the party tree had he not been to the party - and considering the Gamgees were neighbours it wouldhave been very rude not to invite them to a firework party on their doorstop - on the principle it it is close enough to annoy them, invite them.

Estelyn Telcontar 08-20-2009 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tolkien
Practically everybody living near was invited. A very few were overlooked by accident, but as they turned up all the same, that did not matter.

This supports the idea that the Gamgees were definitely present at the party. I would agree with those who think that they were not among the 144 honoured guests. Perhaps, seeing that they helped out in various functions at Bag End, they may have had some sort of task assigned to them - I can imagine Sam serving beer from the barrel to which he later says farewell! ;)

Morthoron 08-20-2009 06:41 PM

The Gamgees parked cars and worked the coat check. They made very little money, as Hobbits are notoriously bad tippers.

Inziladun 08-20-2009 06:49 PM

I'd be more apt to think along the lines of Esty. Sam works the crowd..."One for me 'n one for you Mr. Burrows. That's another for me 'n one for you Mrs. Chubb..."

radagastly 08-20-2009 08:24 PM

Gotta agree with Esty and Inziladun, the Gamgees were at the party. Except it was probably "One for you, Mr. Proudfoot, two for my Gaffer, and one more for me!"

Seriously, I have no doubt the Gamgees were both at the party, as well as their cousins, nephews, nieces, aunts, uncles, grandfathers, grandmothers, grandaunts and -uncles etc. as well as many and any other relatives they had including assorted siblings (we don't know for a fact that Sam was an only child, only that he was the only one who "made good!")

After all, it is clear that Bilbo planned and executed a community festival, not a private party. The real question is, was this party the clincher in why it was (apparently) so difficult for him to give up the Ring when it came down to it? After all, it was the first time he used the Ring to trick, and not merely to hide. Surely, that stress would have worked on him, at least a little, to make Gandalf's job more difficult in persuading him to give it up?

Just a random thought . . .!

TheGreatElvenWarrior 08-21-2009 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radagastly (Post 608508)
Seriously, I have no doubt the Gamgees were both at the party, as well as their cousins, nephews, nieces, aunts, uncles, grandfathers, grandmothers, grandaunts and -uncles etc. as well as many and any other relatives they had including assorted siblings (we don't know for a fact that Sam was an only child, only that he was the only one who "made good!")

Sam wasn't an only child! He has siblings on his family tree.

radagastly 08-22-2009 10:04 AM

Originally posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior:

Quote:

Sam wasn't an only child! He has siblings on his family tree.
I guess I should have checked that before I said anything.

TheGreatElvenWarrior 08-22-2009 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radagastly (Post 608664)
I guess I should have checked that before I said anything.

Probably. Sam had five siblings if I counted right.


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