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-   -   Elfhelm's Elf Helm (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=15881)

Alfirin 10-30-2009 05:57 PM

Elfhelm's Elf Helm
 
After reading the threads on Elves and Gondor and Elves and Dunland a though occurs to me.
Doesnt the fact that Elfhelm has an Elf Helm meat that at some point there was likey contact between the elves and Rohan. Elfhelm woud have had to get the helmet from somewhere, and if it wasn't the result of direct contact (i.e. Elfhelm recieving it personally from the elves) I would at least seem to be evidece of someone say an ancestor of Elfhelm recieving it. there is of couse that chance that the Helm came from some battlefield or was a war trophy but this doesn't really feel right.

Inziladun 10-30-2009 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfirin (Post 614737)
After reading the threads on Elves and Gondor and Elves and Dunland a though occurs to me.
Doesnt the fact that Elfhelm has an Elf Helm meat that at some point there was likey contact between the elves and Rohan. Elfhelm woud have had to get the helmet from somewhere, and if it wasn't the result of direct contact (i.e. Elfhelm recieving it personally from the elves) I would at least seem to be evidece of someone say an ancestor of Elfhelm recieving it. there is of couse that chance that the Helm came from some battlefield or was a war trophy but this doesn't really feel right.

Dragon treasure, maybe? The horn given to Merry by Éowyn came from the hoard of the dragon Scatha, and who knows what all he had acquired over the years.

Galin 10-30-2009 09:13 PM

Maybe the name might mean something like: 'protected (as if) by Elves (magic)'?

But I might be off. The name occurs in Primary World sources, and Leonid L. Korablev's The True Elves of Europe suggests a meaning (not necessarily in a Tolkien context, although '(cf. Elfhelm of Rohan)' is also noted): 'protected by Elves? (helm-protection by Elves)'. The site also notes:

Quote:

Searle's "Onomasticon" (mentioned by Arundell Lowdham, a character of JRRT's "Notion Club Papers") contains 35 different names of the form AElf + adjective (noun); it mentions 75 recorded bearers of the name AElfwine "Elf-friend".

Nerwen 10-31-2009 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfirin (Post 614737)
Doesnt the fact that Elfhelm has an Elf Helm meat that at some point there was likey contact between the elves and Rohan. Elfhelm woud have had to get the helmet from somewhere, and if it wasn't the result of direct contact (i.e. Elfhelm recieving it personally from the elves) I would at least seem to be evidece of someone say an ancestor of Elfhelm recieving it. there is of couse that chance that the Helm came from some battlefield or was a war trophy but this doesn't really feel right.

Does it say he has an "Elf helm"? I thought that was just his name.

davem 10-31-2009 08:58 AM

I think its just his name - & the 'helm' element doesn't necessarily mean helmet - it had a range of meanings in Anglo-Saxon:
Quote:

helm [] 1. m (-es/-as) protection, defence, covering, crown; summit, top (of trees); helmet; 2 protector, lord;
This is a decent Anglo-Saxon dictionary http://home.comcast.net/~modean52/oeme_dictionaries.htm

Elfhelm/Aelfhelm is a fairly common Anglo-Saxon name & I suspect Tolkien simply liked the sound of it.

Morthoron 10-31-2009 03:14 PM

I guess the real question is, why did Elfhelm want protection from Elves? ;)

Legate of Amon Lanc 10-31-2009 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron (Post 614776)
I guess the real question is, why did Elfhelm want protection from Elves? ;)

Maybe he just "had it". Like, you know, sort of this "oh, this boy is certainly blessed by gods" as we know it from many ancient myths and legends, or something like that. So, like, "mysterious powers (i.e. Elves, for the Rohirrim) guard this boy". Or it could be any way...

Mithalwen 10-31-2009 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron (Post 614776)
I guess the real question is, why did Elfhelm want protection from Elves? ;)

Because with Theodred based at Helm's deep and Eomer at Aldburg he was the one who had to deal with Grima on a daily basis ...for seven years .... enough to get the doughtiest warrior feeling he needed any help going.... :cool:

William Cloud Hicklin 12-08-2009 02:36 PM

I wouldn't take it any more literally than the genuine OE name Aelfwine "elf-friend"- which didn't imply that the bearer palled around with actual elves!


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