The remaining elves
 

Who are they? Of course Arwen stays with Aragorn, but doesn't Legolas stay, when Aragorn gave him land to rule? Are there others? Or am I totally off? Did they all leave?

Maluriel, Heri Ilmalooke raust mear

There were many other Elves that remained in ME after the war besides Legolas, who eventually left, and Arwen.

Celeborn stayed for a long while with a large group of the Galdrhim (I don't think that's how you spell that [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] ), and many Elves helped Legolas in the ordering of Ithilien.

There are probably bunches of others, but I can't think of any right now.

Legolas went with Gimli to the havens after Aragorn died. Wasn't there something in the appendixes about some elves staying and diminiching? So that they are still around, hidding from us and trying to repare all that they can? Or did I just read that online somewhere?

All of the Noldor return to THe Undying Lands, along with Elrond.

The appendices [which contain a wealth of lore by the way [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ] also tell us that Legolas stayed until Aragorn died. Arwen by marrying [or falling in love with really] Aragorn chooses mortality and stays and finally after Aragorn dies she returns to Cerin Amroth and dies.

Her brothers final fate is unkown and much debated, but I think they Sail West after Aragorn dies.

As for all of the other Elves, they either sail west or they slowly [over ages] fade, becoming invisible to humans.

See the poem Kortirion among the Trees in Book of Lost Tales for JRRT's view on this.

I hope that helps.

[ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

It does very much, but I can't stand that. I have to believe, I can't explain why, that there will always be some elves in Middle Earth, and that the Havens isn't just Heaven and they all died. I don't know why I feel this way, but I get really involved in these stories and I feel so close to elves in particular that I have to believe they won't ever entirely deminish. I think I'm just a little too dramatic about fantasy, but oh well. How long did Aragorn live anyway?

Maluriel, Heri Ilmalooke Raust Mear

1 March III 2931 to IV 120 (lived 210 years)

I agree with you maluriel. It would be a deep loss to Middle Earth if the elves were to die out9and a deep lodd to us...becuase of our deep involvement in the books). However, they just diminished. Isn't it a strange though though, elves evntually becoming invisible to mankind. If they are real , that would would explain many things. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

but diminish entirely, or just from Middle and Normal Earth?

Maluriel, Heri Ilmalooke Raust Mear

Come on, give me something to go on! They couldn't have completely became nothing and never were! No, I won't allow it! Is the Havens really Heaven, or another land? Please help me!

Maluriel, Heri Ilmalooke Raust Mear

I don't know what to think of the Havens or the Undying Lands They appear to be just another land, a place you can actually reach, but I didn't think you could return, which makes it seem to be a metaphorical heaven.

It is almost as though the world is divided by an invisible screen. You can step through i and see and touch the lands on the other side, but you cannot step back through. This mysterious wall prevents it. A weird image, I know, but something that popped into my head and rather defines my thoughts for me.

I would then have to say that elves do not diminish altogether, but merely step through this "wall" and do not return to the mortal world. They exist, but remain separated from the other side.

I suppose, really, the havens and the Undying Lands are pretty much heaven. Only slightly more 'real', if you take my meaning based on my above musings.

But didn't the Noldor return to ME? And what about when all those elves from Tol Eressea visited Numenor during the Second Age?

According to the Appendices, in ROTK, it says that Legolas built a refuge near Ithilien for the Elves that did not want to leave, they deminished and were only remembered in songs and tales, as men could no longer see them. Celeborn built a refuge East of Lothlorien for the Noldor that remained. I like to think that some elves remained till Arwen went to die at Cerin Amroth, as i do not think that Elrond, Galadriel, and Celeborn would have left her completely alone. Legolas sailed to the Havens in a ship he built, Gimli went with him, after the death of Aragorn, they were the last of the fellowship to leave middle earth.

Havens may be a metaphor for Heaven in a way, but it can't be the literal afterlife, because everyone else who died, inclusing Arwen who was an elf, went somewhere that was not Havens. Havens must just be another land.

Maluriel, Varya Quendelion

I think by diminish it means that there are less and less elves over time. The whole invisible thing doesn't really fly. Perhaps the elves hide very well. If you did happen to meet one you could see him but they for the most part hide.

Wouldn't that be interesting if there was a story about a human that had the gift of seeing elves and brough them back? Hmmm...

Maluriel, Varya Quendelion

Some Nandor probably remained as well as Avari, unless you believe in the theory that is discussed here.

-Aredhel

[ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Aredhel Idril Telcontar ]

Maluriel, I'm not sure what you mean by 'Havens', but if you're talking about Mithlond (the Grey Havens), it's where Elves took their grey ships to Valinor.

-Aredhel

[ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Aredhel Idril Telcontar ]

I don't think that the undying lands can be compared with heaven, because Tolkien said that it was moved into a dimention beoynd human ideas (Sorry, I can't think of a better world and my legs gone dead so I can't be bothered to limp upstairs and get the book) Doesn't this mean that we can't compare it to anything that we know?

Sounds right. And yes I do mean the Grey Havens. Because elves are immortal, then it would be inhabitted by immortals and thus seem like an afterlife, but in fact it is not. Okay, I feel better now. Legolas no die. Life is good. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Namari an si.

Maluriel, Varya Quendelion

Meela, Glorfindel went to Valinor and returned to Middle Earth....hence why he glowed with light as if from behind a veil. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Good old Glofindel, but why did he bother coming back? Before I finished ROTK I thought the grey heavens were another name for Valinor. Silly me. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]