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-   -   The Fate and Origin of the Istari (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1776)

Thulorongil 12-24-2003 03:23 PM

The Fate and Origin of the Istari
 
I know that the Istari were five Maiar who were sent to Middle Earth to help with the war against Sauron in the Second and First ages, but why were only five chosen? And how/why were those five sent?

A semi-related question: What happened to the Istari after Sauron was defeated? I know that Saruman and Olorin returned to the West, but I read somewhere that the Ithryn Luin stayed in ME and I do not know what the fate of Radagast was.

I probably just haven't read the right material yet, but if anyone knows...feel free to enlighten me!

Tar-Alcarin 12-24-2003 03:35 PM

In the Letters of Tolkein he mentions this
Quote:

...and I suspect [Alatar and Pallondo] were the founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.' (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No. 211).
This amy mean that they went into the east, started a cult and had rave parties deep underground in the ruins of Angbad. Smoked (pipe)weed and snorted crack(s of doom) For all we know.

Legolas 12-24-2003 03:57 PM

There is a whole chapter in Unfinished Tales dedicated to the Istari (as well as a small portion in HoME XII). Highly recommended reading.

Quote:

but why were only five chosen?
Because they didn't need to send an army to fill the purpose - they were only sent as guides. Manwe only planned on sending three originally.

Quote:

how/why were those five sent?
Their mission was to guide the free people of Middle-earth against Sauron. They were guides, counsellors to unite those people - not to fight Sauron, for Middle-earth had to learn to stand up for its own good. Little would be achieved if the Valar swooped in and saved the day everytime an evil-doer popped up. If they had been sent to combat Sauron directly, the five would've marched down to Mordor, faced off with him, and returned home in time for dinner.

Quote:

It was afterwards said that they came out of the Far West and were messengers sent to contest the power of Sauron, and to unite all those who had the will to resist him; but they were forbidden to match his power with power, or to seek to dominate Elves and Men by force or fear.
Quote:

their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men and Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt.
They were selected in a meeting the Valar held in Valinor. Of the Maiar, three were to be sent as emissaries. When Manwe asked for volunteers, Alatar and Curumo (Saruman) stepped forward. Then he asked where Olorin was, a Maia of his own people, but Olorin was reluctant to go, for he was humble and estimated Sauron as greater than he - Manwe saw this as more reason for him to go, and proved correct in his assessment that Olorin would prove the better of the two. Yavanna insisted that one of her own people go, Aiwendil, known as Radagast in Middle-earth. Alatar requested that his friend Pallando be allowed to accompany him; both are Maiar of Orome. Manwe granted both requests.

Saruman did *not* return to Valinor. He was slain, and due to the nature of the Istari and their incarnation, they could die like this (just as Gandalf did, and Sauron).

Quote:

Whereas Curunír was cast down, and utterly humbled, and perished at last by the hand of an oppressed slave; and his spirit went whithersoever it was doomed to go, and to Middle-earth, whether naked or embodied, came never back.
It is reasonable to presume that Radagast may have returned to Valinor. Of Alatar and Pallando, I would say it depends on their path - how entangled in evil they may have become in the East.

For info on Radgast and the Blue Wizards see the Middle-earth FAQ I've written on them.

lathspell 12-24-2003 04:01 PM

Hello all,

The quote of the Blue Wizards is already given above. But the fate of Saruman wasn't to go back to the West. After Wormtongue slit his throat, the LotR says this:

Quote:

To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height as smoke from a fire, as a pale figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered,looking to the West;but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bend away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing.
The fate of Saruman seems to be exactly the same of the one of Sauron, for at the point of the destruction of the Ring the same thing happens above Barad-dur.

The fate of Radagast is completely unknown to me.

greetings,
lathspell

Thulorongil 12-24-2003 04:04 PM

Like I said, I haven't been reading the right material! Thanks, Legolas!


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