Strange Question: Mums?
 

Ok, this may seem like a dopey little question, but it ahs been driving me crazy and i have been cross-referencing books all over the place: is legolas' mum or gimli's mum mentioned anywhere?!?! do those poor boys HAVE mums? ha ha, that sounds very strange, but i know their fathers were very important, so it seems as if their mums might have done something noteworthy...not that Tolkien is exactly famous for abundant important female characters. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] but not to say anything against the man! any help would be great, though i kind of doubt there is any to be had.

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Esmerelda the Elf-Girl ]

I'm speaking off the top of my head, but the only mothers I recall are Belladonna Took (Bilbo's) and Galadriel (Arwen's). I think patriarchy is the way of the families in Middle Earth.

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"At last I understand why we have waited! This is the ending. Now not day only shall be beloved, but night too shall be beautiful and blessed and all its fear pass away!"

Galadriel wasn't Arwen's mom; Arwen's mom is Celebrian. Galdriel was her grandma. I don't recall ever hearing about Legolas or Gimli's mothers, though. I know they had them (obviously) but I don't think they've been mentioned. The only mention of any female dwarves is when Tolkien was saying something about the fact that they have beards, too.

Hey! Aragorn had a "mum", and the appendix implies that he really loved her, and that fate was not very kind to her.
I guess you can say I take what I can get when it comes to Tolkien's females.

well at least we know Aragorn's mother's name.... Gilraen.....
which is more than i could find about Gimli and Legolas' mothers....sorry [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

twinkle

Yes, Legolas and Gimli do seem to be singularly free of the nagging thought that they should really be writing home to mother and letting her know how they're doing [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. But no, I don't think they're ever mentioned - Tolkien says specifically that only Dwarf-woman named in history is Dis, mother of Fili and Kili, so that leaves Gloin's spouse somewhat out of things, wherever she is. And I'm not sure, but Thranduil's Queen *might* be mentioned somewhere in "The Hobbit" - if she is, though, it's nothing more than a glancing reference, she's certainly not named.

The only other mother I can think of who hasn't been mentioned yet (and who has a story, not just a name in the family trees) is Primula Brandybuck, and of course she's dead even before Page 1. Sam's mother is presumably deceased (at least, I hope she is, considering that the Gaffer is being looked after by the Widow Rumble). Oh yes, and Mrs. Cotton is definitely the motherly type [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

I don't know if this particular lack-of-motherliness has so much to do with Tolkien not including women in his stories (though that certainly didn't help) as in the fact that most adventure stories tend to involve characters who are at a fairly loose end and don't have too many obligations or ties at home, mostly because they're in a better position to take a sudden change of circumstance without it having repercussions on half a dozen other people (to coin a phrase, "not everyone can be an orphan"). Imagine if Frodo's parents had still been alive though elderly when the Quest came along, and Sam and Merry and Pippin had all been married - it's sort of the equivalent of that. They could possibly have done it, but half the challenge would have been arranging for everything at home to be taken care of before getting started (imagine Rosie Gamgee, nee Cotton, just letting her husband go off with Frodo alone for some vague period of time - not too likely). Same for the rest of the Fellowship and, for that matter, quite a few characters outside of it (Eowyn's mother would probably not be fooled by the "Dernhelm" outfit, for one thing).

Basically it's the same reason that heroes and heroines in all adventure novels always have dead or absent mothers, if not dead or absent fathers as well. If they had parents, how would they ever get started? ("And just where do you think you're going off to, young lady?")

Is Boromir and Faramir's mother mentioned anywhere? Perhaps that was why Denethor went mad, he didn't have the support of a good woman!

yes. boromir and Faramir's mother was called Finduilas

but she died 12 years after he married her

And it was when she died that Denethor's despair began to grow, or so we can assume from what is said regarding his behavior following her death.

I don't know anything about Legolas and Gimlis mothers. As a matter of fact I cant remember dwarven women mentioned anywhere! Do they have beards just as the male dwarves? If they do, is that why they aren't mentioned?

The only female Dwarf that is mentioned is Dis, mother of Kili and Fili, I think.

Yeah, thx for reminding me. So... does Dis have a beard? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

I remember them talking about how there are VERY few dwarf women. For some reason, a lot of sons are born. They say that even when they are women, they dress in similar clothing to men, so many think that they ARE male dwarves...and no, I would guess they don't have beards.

In the Appendix about the races in LotR (Appendix F I believe) is where I remember they say there are VERY few dwarf women, which is why the number of living dwarves so slowly increases after many dwarves have died.

Yay! I know something! See: blondes AREN'T dumb! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Oh: I didn't answer the ORIGINAL question:

No, nowhere does it mention Legolas or Gimli's moms...but they must have had them SOMEWHERE. I'm sure Thranduil had a queen, and since there are Dwarf women, Gimli must have had a mommy!

I know this sounds a bit... but why to mention their mums? The book has enough names already and there will be no use to know two more that has nothing to do with the story. and to have them mentioned Tolkein should give some background, which would make the book twice as long if all mothers come to it!

[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Or just Tolkein ran out of names [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

hehe, you're absolutely right...i was just wondering seeing as i am on a neverending quest to learn more about lego. however, i have contented myself with the fact that his mommy was probably simply an annonymous Wood-Elf...or something. i dont know if i could deal with too many more names, come to think of it! (but just HIS mum really couldnt hurt)
[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I just finished reading The Hobbit, and I'm pretty sure that she wasn't. Not 100% positive, but about 99.9% sure. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Esmerelda, are you suggesting that Legolas the Wood-Elf was actually a...ahem..."wood colt"?

Nevfeniel - you're right, I re-read "The Hobbit" recently and didn't notice any reference to a Queen; it's one of those situations where he could be reasonably supposed to have one but if he does, she certainly stays in the background.

Birdland, that does make it sound like Thranduil had a bit of a harem going back there in one of those stone chambers...urgh. Does that mean Legolas would be one of fifty-odd Princes and Princesses, a la "The King and I"? No wonder he joined the fellowship; he would be the only Elf and not constantly getting mixed up with ten or twelve of his brothers. Elves don't seem like the polygamous types though, they're not terribly philoprogenitive and don't seem to be in the habit of remarrying even if separated for several centuries. (Elrond and Celebrian, anyone?)

Interesting inquiry. Stepping outside the story, it's interesting to note that JRRT's own mother died when he was only ten, and, if I recall correctly, was sickly for some time before that. Just shooting in the dark here since I'm not too versed in the biographical details of the prof's life, but the lack of a strong mother figure in Tolkien's life may contribute to the odd lack of mothers in his work.

Thats a good point Mister Underhill. I never thought of that. This certainly is an interesting question, one which I warrant will be causing me to think ( a rare occurance ) for rather a long time. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

uh oh, i just re-read my last post and it did sound rather like i was implying that legolas' mother was just some Wood-elf as part of a harem...or something else....oh no! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] that's REALLY not what i meant! i mean, if thats what they do i really have no problem with it i guess, but somehow i didnt get the impression of these elves being polygamous...i meant annonymous as in she never got mentioned by name by tolkien...that's all. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] I think there is probably not much more to be said on this topic, but thanks to everybody for their imput!

Well, I am happy to report that in my fan fiction, Legolas DOES have a mom, and I have named her Annandiel. Fan fic coming soon to a Barrow-Downs near you! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

yay! cant wait to read it...sounds interesting... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ March 31, 2002: Message edited by: Esmerelda the Elf-Girl ]