Were there any "evil" women?
 

Maybe its just me and I have over looked some characters (like I usually do), but were there any "evil" or "bad" women in the books?
I know that there was Shelob, but she was a gigantic spider, then I guess there was Lobelia Sackville Baggins who I guess you could call "bad" or just plain mean and nasty. But besides those two, was there anyone else?

Interesting point, Daisy - there is one evil woman who is just mentioned in LotR and briefly explained in the Unfinished Tales: Queen Beruthiel. Her cats, which spied for her, were legendary.
Other than that, I don't recall reading of any bad girls - even Lobelia turned good at the end of the story! Apparently Tolkien had quite a high opinion of women!

Tar Ancalime in UT isn't exactly Snow White either. She's not quite evil, though; more egocentric.

My friends and I were discussing this - there are barely any women at all - as for evil ones...shelob is bad... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

What can I say? Tolkien certainly seemed to have women on a pretty high pedestal-at least in the realm of literature.
Well, Galadriel certainly had the potential to be evil.

In one of the many accounts of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin he mentions the evil easterling women he had known when he was held captive early in life.

You said Galadriel had the POTENTIAL for evil...well, I am sure that ALL the women did, as all of us do! (just wanted to say that)

Thuringwethil wasn't your average lady...in fact, she was a vampire and Maia who was Sauron's messenger because she was able to change shapes into a bat with iron claws.

~~Daegwenn

What about Ungoliant (I think I spelt it right) - the female in spider form in the Silmarillion, she was pretty evil if you ask me!

Darn, got here too late. The only ones I could think of were Tar-Ancalime and Queen Beruthiel (at least among the humans or near-humans). And they aren't even in LOTR proper, like Shelob (and Lobelia, though Lobelia is so far removed from Shelob that I hesitate to even mention them together). Though when you get right down to it, proportionally that would be about right; most of the venues of LOTR are extremely masculine - in a society like that, there just aren't going to be a lot of women battling at Helm's Deep or hanging out in the Prancing Pony. They just aren't in the same venues as the main characters and so don't have any opportunities to be evil, except for Galadriel. Maybe Tolkien did have women on a pedestal, or maybe there just wasn't room for an evil woman in the story - can you imagine where to fit one in? Somehow making an evil female consort for Saruman or Sauron doesn't seem quite right. What would she *do* anyway?

Where is it written that Thuringwethil was a Maia?

Yes, but Galadriel was in the position to wreak way more havoc than your average femme fatale.

But isn't that sort of the heart of it? Desiring greater glory for yourself and such like? That certainly seems to be where Melkor made his mistake, trying to enlarge his role and grandure.

Just a random thought... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I wouldn't equate egocentricity with evil. Just misplaced priorities. However, everyone really tends to put themselves first, because most beings wish to do what will benefit them the most. If helping others benefits more than destroying others, then the being is considered "good". OTOH, if destroying others benefits more than helpinng, then the being is considered "evil".

Man, I really am waxing philosophical tonight, aren't I? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]