Is Elrond a wuss?
 

Ok so his strenght is in wisdom not weapons, but he was the herald of Gil-Galad. I understand healers are not warriors. But why did he fight in the first war of The Ring while in the second war he stayed home and sent his sons to do the dirty work??
Is Elrond a wuss or a walking paradox??

Your views on Elrond are very different and refreshing. but give the man a break, he's freaking 5000 some years old! Would YOU want to fight a big bloody war at 5000. I mean, Yoda didn't even reach 5000. of course yoda wasn't immortal, and he wasn't an elf, and he... oh never mind. Elrond though that his sons should fight, because ther're a tad bit younger, a bit more spry, if you catch my meaning.

think about this: in the 2nd war of the ring how many elves left where they were to fight sauron? in case you were wondering the answer is 3

also i'm afraid that Ainahithiel's argument for why Elrond didn't go out and fight is not valid because elves dont physically age as humans do. ie he did not become decrepit

You're too ready to think the worst of the poor guy. He had one of the Rings! (I forget its name) No way he was going to bring the Ring straight to Sauron. And you can't compare that to the Quest. He was only willing to send the One Ring as a very last resort. So instead of going himself, the closest he could do was send his sons.

hmm it wasn't nice of him to send his own sons instead of himself... they could've died there. if he wasn't going to fight, he shouldn't send his sons either.

Where does it say he 'sent' his sons?
I was always under the impression Elladan and Elrohir wanted to go. they traveled alot w/ the Rangers. Elrond prob sent messages w/ them when they were already resolved to go to the Wars in the South.

Recall Gwindor of nargothrond? he was not sent by Orodreth, he went because he wanted to.

As for 'Why did not Elrond go?'

He was not an independent bachelor. He was a patriarch of one of 4 elven settlements [ not counting Dorwinion]we hear of at the end of the 3rd age. He was responsible for the safety and protection not of just the dwellers there, but of a place of refuge for travelling Dwarves, rangers and the wandering companies.

In short he had a home to run. He had been to war in Mordor before [ and who else involved in the final battles [ Minas Tirith and the Morannon] can say that?

No one.

I imagine that if his conscience had led him to Mordor he would have gone.

He did journey for the wedding, acompanying his daughter, buit if he had left earlier - the right sequence of events could have been disturbed.

He to my mind obviously did exactly what he was supposed to do.
N

Just like Denethor and Sauron himself, all great lords use others as their weapons if they are wise.

Don't you forget that there was war going on in the North too. Lorien, Mirkwood and Dale were attacked. Luckily Rivendel wasn't, but could Elrond leave his realm at such a time? So the defence of Minas Tirith was purely Men's job (not to mention the Companions). And I think that by that time Elrond's sons had already decided to stay in M-E with mortals, so the war in the South was their war too.

I suppose it depends on how you view the importance of him remaining at Rivendell. I would consider that something he should do, and since he did it, I can't call him a wuss.

Thanks Frodo Baggins, I was wondering that myself! Who knows? Perhaps there is a whole nother back story and Elrond is doing things that we never hear about, like using his powers to protect them, sending messengers, making sure that they are not tracked in his country. Who knows? Perhaps he was trying to convince the elves to stay another year to help the ring bearer. Without him, perhaps Lorien would have been deserted when the fellowship got there?

Well now that I think about it, it would be rather stupid of Elrond to walk right up to Sauron's front door with the greatest of the Elven Rings of power now wouldn't it??

The point that Elrond had one of the Elven Rings is a good one. We really don't know what Elrond was doing behind the scenes, since Tolkien is rather "vague" about just what one can do with a Elven Ring. "Preserve" seems to be the common answer.

Which brings to mind the fact that Gandalf was present at the war with an Elven ring, so what was he doing there? Same as everyone else: playing sacrificial lamb so that Sauron's eye would be turned away from the threat of Frodo and Sam inching closer and closer to Mordor. If those two should fail, then all the Elven rings in the world wouldn't have been much help.

And no, Elrond is not a wuss. He's a leader. Leaders lead; they usually don't go out in the field of battle, and for very good reasons. (Or sometimes bad reasons, but usually, it's for the best.)

*walks in* Excuse me? Yoda does have the pointy ears...

I know that this topic has fallen back a page or two but I need to coment on this one.

One reason that Elrond did not go to war was that the time of Elves was coming to an end. It was the Age of Men. They needed to take care of their own problems.

Galadriel and Elrond were their to aid them, but out of necesity,if they were going to rule, the Men had to "prove" themselves by defeating Sauron.

As for Eladan and Elrohir going into battle, they were sent as messengers to Aragorn, but since they had a friendship with him and the other Dunedian, they fought along side of them.

Hey that's funny, I just realised how much Yoda is like an elf!
Ahem...moving along...
Elladan and Elrohir really, really wanted to go into war because of their mother, and Elrond--I agree with the other posts--did not want to send the ring he possessed straight to Sauron. I think that Elrond definitely is not a wuss, however you put it...but heck, to each his own.

Phew, so many times I've seen threads that start out with "So-and-so a wuss?" BAH!
I won't rant, but I will try to be cilvilzed in my reply...

I tell you, live it. Learn sword fighting and run through the forest yourself, lugging all your provisions on your back, living by fireside and dragging your tired feet leagues and leagues and tell me that you would be hungering to risk your life in battle!
It's not a fun thing. It's hard work! You need a cause that forces you to do such things. Have you ever been forced to fight a battle over and over again? Seen your family destroyed before your eyes? Watched as cities were reduced to burning rubble?
I ask you, when you call someone a wuss, put yourself in his shoes for a moment. Perhaps them you might understand more of why Elrond let the youngest of his family do the scouting and warring. It's a job for fresh minds who have not yet seen the gore of battle. Ponder on it, please.

AH! My dear Tirned!!! I figured you would find this thread sooner or later. Ind for your information, I was calling no one a wuss, I was asking. Theres a difference. And, as always, you are very true in what you say.

joy: I am probably reading more into your staement than you intended re: the war being 'men's responsibility'. but here is an incredible article by Michael Martinez [ one of my fav's I have ever read on M-E] which details just how responsible the Elves were for the whole mess of the rings.
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/58090

[ September 16, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

*fumes*

ahh red, why are you *fuming*? is it your feiry red nature, or perchance did I post something to offend you?

lindil

Elrond was not a wuss. Plain and simple. Like joy said the Elves were fading. Their strength was gone. The elves were steadily leaving the shores of middle earth. The blood of the Noldor was all but spent. The Elves were very weak in numbers if I am not mistaken only 4 cities of the elves remained. Greenwood the great, Lothlorien, Rivendell, and The Grey havens. These populations were steadily decreasing as stated before. Their strength was not enough to overthrow Sauron.

The mortals of middle earth needed a King. If Elrond set forth from Rivendell they would have looked to him for leadership instead of Aragorn. Aragorn and the race of men needed to step up to the plate. Men could no longer look to the Elves for help. Elrond and the Elves had not the power or the will to keep on fighting after millenia. Aragorn established the Leadership that would unite the race of Men and overthrow Sauron.

Secondly, there would have been no point in Elrond setting forth from Rivendell. The ringbearer got the job done. The ring was destroyed. Elrond's mind was needed not his muscle. Elves at the black gate would not have helped. They would only have been targets for orcs. Aragorn was able to get the job done. The race of men sucseeded in saving the world. The Elves would only have served as a distraction.

Thirdly, as to why Elrond personally did not set out for battle. It would have been foolish. Kings need not be on the front lines of a battle. Their leadership is needed more than their sword. The loss of Elrond to the Elves of Rivendell would have been fatal. Where Aragorn needed to gain credebility by fighting, Elrond needed none. He would have just been a needless casualty. Not to mention losing his ring.

While I admit to the oft exprssed sentiment that it was time for Men to come to the fore.
I ca not agree w/ the staement which several made, that 'Men', destroyerd the ring.

Besdides the obvious fact that it was hobbits, these hobbits were aided and guided far more by a Maia and high-Elves than men, true Aragorn [ under gandalf's guidance] led the Army of the West to the Black Gate as a distraction. but we never were given a chance to see just how essential that was.

The Elven leadership did clearly see it's role here though as backgroung points of resisitancwe and counsel.

Elrond was the cheif in may ways of the many wars and underground resistance ever since Angmar appeared on the scene. He knew his role and stayed exactly within the boundaries set for him, like Bombadil.

Elrond was also taking [ or I should say increasing] an already large risk by harboring the heirs of Isuldur for so many centuries. although to be honest Sauron should have assumed he would help any remaing Arnorians, and as gandalf says in UT & Annotated Hobbit [in 'the quest for Erebor']"to attack Rivendell and lorien would have benn a wiser plan on his [Sauron's] part. It would have proved far more deadly to us if the ring bearer had had no place to take refuge and counsel in".
paraphrase

Well spoken, as I am finding out, Lindil, your posts are informative and well thought out.
Frodo Baggins! HA! I didn't connect the name again. I should have known. Hmmmm! I suppose I am true to my word. Nice of you to say so!
I apologise. Now, your question, was Elrond a wuss?
NO! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Elrond was not a wuss! He had to stay behind and protect his people. If he had gone to the war, he could have gotten killed and Rivendell would be without a leader. How wise is that? Besides, maybe his sons wanted to go to the war. They seem like the adventerous type.
Another reason is that during the first war of the ring, the elves were more prominent and had a greater population. Because the 2nd war of the ring was at the end of the third age, and the fourth age was considered the age of men, Elrond decided to stay and lead his people over the sea.

Well, it's offical: I am the most pathetic Lord of the Rings fan in existence. I know nothing, and yet I still try to help others that are in need.


And I get the point about the ring. I hadn't actually thought about that.....

I mentioned this quote on another thread recently. I can't remember exactly where it's from (LOTR or Hobbit) but I remember that it's when someone is getting their first look at Elrond. It says that he's "wise as...fair as..." and so on, and it mentions that he'd definitely be a force to reckon with on the battlefield. If I recall correctly, it uses the word "warrior" to describe him. He did, after all, decend from Earendil, Beren, Turgon, Tuor, and Fingolfin. And also, the last time the elves went to war (last alliance) he was right there.

Just because a character isn't in a detailed battle doesn't mean they couldn't fight. He was a great ruler of the elves, and every single elven king I can think of was a great warrior, and when they die usually go out in the front of the battle or with some glorious last stand. I have no reason to believe that it would be different with Elrond.

Elrond is not a Wuss!He didn't go because if he died Rivendell would have gone into dissaray and the people would have lost hope which might lead to them losing the battle!Also he had his own problems with the north being attacked and all.Plus he would have been sending the ring right into Saurons hands. Also if he had said no to his sons about going they would have sulked and sneaked out on their own and been angry with him since they are so adventurous.Also then like Gandalf was a scapegoat he was also kind off that Saurons eye was partly on Rivendell partly on Lothlorien and partly on Gandalf and the war and not in Mordor.

Thank you, red. That was the quote I was looking for.

Elrond isnt a wuss he's amazing! he's so brave and wise and fair...need i go on?