Why does Gandalf...
 

Why does gandalf go to see sauroman even after he is sure that it is the one ring? He would have been more useful staying with Frodo/Sam [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Because he did not realize yet that Saruman was so deep a traitor. He wanted to "seek help from the head of his order", and he thought Saruman's wisdom could help them figure out what to do.

I realize this however I still belive he didnt need no help, really think of it frodo made it anyway and had gandalf been their to help it would have been a much swifter victory

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 1:15 AM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: dubleu ]

also gandalf knew what they must do. He knew that it must be destroid and he knew how that must be done

Gandalf also went to see Saruman because Radagast brought word that the Nine were riding.

Gandalf went to Saruman for help - think of the great help Saruman would've provided. Gandalf did not have enough reason to expect otherwise.

Saruman's treachery was amazingly kept a secret from the entire White Counci. Even so, I'm sure that Galadriel and some of the other very astute Councillors had their private suspicions of Saruman. He had delayed the attack against Dol Guldur and kept claiming that the One Ring had been lost forever, while secretly searching for it himself. He managed to hide his rebellion, until Gandalf came to Isengard, and told Saruman that the Ring was in the hands of a Hobbit. That realization drove Saruman to commit the mistake of letting Gandalf know that he had rebelled.

I thought Gandalf simply didnt know what to do with the ring and thought that Saruman would be able to help him decide what should be done with it. But when he got to isenguard Saruman said the only option was to join Sauron.

yea, that's too bad. If Saruman did not betray good for evil, the war would have gone at least a little smoother.

It is not interesting that the one person who objected to attacking the major bad guy in Middle-Earth, even though this major bad guy had not yet carried out any attacks on innocents of Middle-Earth, was the guy who had the darkest and most evil designs. 'Nuff said about that.

Actually, as I recall, Saruman SENT for Gandalf, did he not? In the books? Either way, it made sense for Gandalf to try and get back to Saruman, because, while it did wind up working out in the end, Gandalf would want to get back to the highest power he could to seek counsel and help on the mission to destroy the Ring.

You are correct, Knight of Gondor. Saruman had Radagast deliver the message to Gandalf that Gandalf should "seek [Saruman's] aid at once." That is the simple explanation for why Gandalf went.

In the books, Gandalf never tells Saruman that the Ring is in the hands of a hobbit.

that's true. answering the question:
yea, Gandalf went because he was summoned there by Saruman.

Really? How much more useful would he have been with Frodo and Sam?
They were actually with him when they got to Rivendell, and nothing irriverable happened on the trip there, only some minor setbacks. So, how much help would gandalf have actually been on the road to rivendell?

No Old Man Willow or Barrow Wights near-deaths.

No stabbing at Amon-Sul.

Nuff said. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

If Mithrandir/olorin/gandalf had been with Frodo/Sam throughout the entire Journey to Rauros, where he would cut off, (i,e. not being "delayed" by Saruman, and not falling in Moria) Gandalf would have made things too easy for frodo/sam and would not have been a letdown for the entire fellowship to make them trust each other more.

If Saruman could be trusted then the journey could have been down the west side of the Misty Mountains (no Moria and obviously no bird-spies of Saruman) and into Rohan, then Gondor and over into Mordor with little risk before crossing the Anduin. Isengard was originally specifically built to block the Gap of Rohan to Sauron's forces and help keep him at bay to the East.

Saruman, Gandalf and Aragorn would have been quite formidable as a team using the Isengard palantier to distract Sauron and watch his activities.

Generally speaking, having Saruman on-side would have made the whole enterprise an order of magnitude easier but the specific ability to avoid Moria was probably the main reason Gandalf wanted to make sure Saruman was going to finally act against Sauron. So off he went to answer the summons...

If Saruman had been on the side of the Free Peoples, then the element of danger for the Rohirrim would have been far smaller, and I don't think they would have truly realized the magnitude of the danger posed to Gondor. Since they themselves had been under a great deal of danger, they knew that they would have to get to Gondor as quickly as possible.

Gandalf goes because Saruman could help them - he says it himself, that when he goes to see Saruman one of the thoughts in his mind was that Sarumna may have discovered a weapon to use against the Enemy or the Nine.

I cant say Gandalf would have helped that much. How much good did he do in the hobbit? Bad stuff stil happened. Certainly Gandalf would have changed things. It could have been far worse. It all worked out in the end so it is not important to go back and say what if Sam had eaten a ham sandwhich on thursday. Thats the way Tolkien wrote it and its great.

If saruman hadnt have defected, Isen never would have been destroyed ,pippen never would have seen in the palanite and Gondor
would have been destroyed.
In the words of Morpheus "What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way"

Oh, he would have helped. A being with the power to fight all the Ringwraiths at once would probably have prevented the Nazgul from stabbing Frodo. Frodo's being stabbed by the Witch King, in my opinion, not only hindered their flight to Rivendell but also made Frodo more susceptible to the Ring's power throughout the course of his entire quest.

But on the other hand Rohan wouldn't have been ravaged, would have been able to help Minas Tirith in the war, Théoden would have been fine and dandy and Sarumna would have helped fight Sauron...and the Fellwoship would have had a really safe journey through the empty Westlands. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

We must remember that Saruman was the head of the Istari and the White Council. If Saruman did not betray Gandalf, there probably would have been a meeting of the White Council where the fate of the ring could be discussed by the wisest and most influential people in Middle Earth. Think how much it would have helped if all the good guys of the land were coordinated to help the quest succeed. There would always have been a wizard looking after the fellowship, the powerful people of ME would have been able to better protect the Fellowship, etc. In addition, a better and safer route could have been plotted if the White Council met. It was only logical for Gandalf to seek help. Why would he take the burden upon himself when there were so many other powerful people that could help? Also, it was his responsibility to alert the influential people of ME about the Ring and the quest. It would have been stupid of his not to.