The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - Mouth of Sauron was a Black Nume? right?

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Mouth of Sauron was a Black Nume? right?

My friend said he was a haradrim but i said he was a black num and he asked for sum quotes and i dont got any can sum one help me plz

I haven't got RotK in English, so I can't give any quotes, but I think they say he was a Black Numenorean, so he was probably one of the Corsairs of Umbar.

He was indeed a Black Numenorean. He worshipped Sauron during the Dark Years, and entered his service. I don't know what happened between the first downfall of Sauron and the War of the Ring to him.

The mouth of sauron didn't live in that age. He is human and can't live that long. He entered Sauron's service in the third age. It's most definetly a corsair from umbar and he worked his way up. Maybe not completely pure, but most definetly a black numenorean.

~Potatothan

The Mouth of Sauron was a human, Black Numenorean, most likely a Corsair of Umbar. He was mortal, so he was probably an Corsair of high rank offered the job by Sauron. In one of the tales (I don't remember which or where) it is mentioned that, if Sauron had won the War of the Ring, this Black Numenorean would've been given regency over the defeated western lands. In fact, Sauron would've used this ambassador to replace Saruman, ruling from a rebuilt Isengard in his stead. He was doing this purely for profit. I unfortunately do not have any quotes that can confirm these facts.

ya but could a num live that long? did he prolong his life with magic or something along those lines?

He didn't live that long. He was born in the late Third Age, probably, and lived as long as any normal man. No magic involved.

With all of these unsubstantiated opinions, I am moving this topic to Novices and Newcomers, where it belongs.

ya i too think that he was a black numeroean

Everything there is to know about the Mouth of Sauron for the purposes of this thread is in The Return of the King. The following passage from The Black Gate Opens ought to make the whole situation painfully clear.

Quote:

The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man, The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dûr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: 'I am the Mouth of Sauron.' But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Númenoreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron's domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge. And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again, and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord's favour; and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron; and he was more cruel than any orc.

When cross-referenced with the Tale of Years, this passage gives us a rough age for the Mouth of Sauron: he must have been alive before 2951 TA, when Sauron began rebuilding the Dark Tower and declared himself openly again; and since he learned no sorcery before then, he must have been born not long earlier. It also states quite categorically the common belief that he was a Black Númenorean. It doesn't say that he was one, but this is an instance where Tolkien remembered that he was trying to write his story as a chronicle. He couldn't give the story of the Mouth of Sauron as the narrator without some sort of logical source for the knowledge. Anything not contained in this one chapter from The Lord of the Rings is speculative and cannot be confirmed, unless for some reason references to the Mouth were overlooked when making the index to the History of Middle-earth, in which I can find no reference to him.