If Sauron did not make the one ring
 

would he be able to comeback after his defeat by the last alliance?

What if Melkor had behaved in the first place?

We wouldn't have had any of this to debate at all. hmmmm

If sauron never made the one ring, then he would not have been able to come back, after his defeat at the last alliance he would have been dead, and his spirit would have gone bck to Valanor, since he was a Maiar, to be judged by the Valar

If Sauron had never made thye one ring, there would never have been the Last Alliance since he would have been killed in the drowning of Numenor. He was only able to survive that because the ring 'anchored' him to middle earth, allowing him to return. Also, if Sauron had never made the one ring, it is possible that he never would've been tangled up with the Numenoreans as he couldn't have defeated the elves and taken over ME without his ring.
So if Sauron never made the ring it is conceivable that Ar-Pharazon would never have attacked Valinor, leading to the drowning of Numenor and the removal of the uttermost west from the circles of the world.

Who really knows?

I suppose it would depend on his degree of incarnation. Balrogs could be killed because they were very tied to their physical forms, but other Ainu went unclad, and their forms were merely raiment they wore in order to be seen in the physical world. They were not fully incarnate, so if you killed their physical form, it would just be like stripping off their clothing (it wouldn't hurt them).

So we can't say for sure if Sauron could come back, because it would depend on how often and deeply Sauron interacted with the physical world. It's possible he would've been careful not to become fully incarnate if he didn't have the ring to fall back on.

Well... if we are going by the movie version, which we probably arent [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] then if Sauron did not make the One Ring he would not have got wooped so bad when the Last Alliance waged war on him. Because Isildur would only have cut off a finger which would not have done much to a might Maia spirit such as himself and then he would have proceeded to pound the living Fea out the Men and Elves to the ground with his black mace.

He would probably have come back even sooner. He gave up some of his power to make the one ring, and was weakened by being separated from it. If he had not made the One Ring, he would still have retained that part of himself that went into the forging of it. If he had not created it, his fea would have been stronger by itself and he would have been able to return even sooner.

Well, if Sauron had never made the One Ring, Tolkien would have never written about it, therefore none of us would be here discussing it! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
That's what popped into my head as I was reading the posts.
Arwen

But would he have died in the Drowning of Númenor? Would he been able t reform? I have a feeling he would have...it is because of the Ring that he gains a madssive power boost, (when he has it) BUT also means if it's destoryed Sauron will be crippled weaker than ever possible without the Ring (so says Gandalf, becaus you will have actually destoryed part of his power, permanently separating it from Him).
He may have been able to reform...I'm actually very curious now as to how a permanent reforming Maia could be avoided...

(Like Gothmog: how ocme he never reappears?)

Go to the thread below and scroll down in the very first post until you see Incarnation. I believe you'll find it very applicable to this discussion.

It should also answer your question about "permanent reforming Maia", Olorin.
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin...&f=24&t=000045

Thanks for the link, very interesting.

Just a few questions though: was Ósanwe-kenta written by Tolkien or someone else? (If someone else, what are their sources?)

Also, about this point:

"So it was also with even some of his greatest servants, as in these later days we see: they became wedded to the forms of their evil deeds, and if these bodies were taken from them or destroyed, they were nullified, until they had rebuilt a semblance of their former habitations, with which they could continue the evil courses in which they had become fixed."

Even though they ahd to rebuild their former bodies, it would seme that a Balrog would have done that between the 1st and 3rd Ages...(maybe the one in Moria did? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ), so do you think the Balrogs had become fully incarnate by that time and simply couldn't rebuild?

Excuse me, I´m just wonder, whad did really happend to Melkor? And was´nt Sauron just a human? Or did Sauron got power from Melkor?
I´ve read Silmarillion and the half of the book Tales from Middle earth, but it dos´nt make any sense? (Excuse my english, I´m just a 15 years old girl from Sweden) [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Melkor was defeated by the Valar and was executed by Mandos, and his spirit thrust into the void outside Arda.
No, Sauron was not a man but a maiar, a spirit similar to the valar.

Ok1 Thank you, but what did happend to Sauron whwn the one ring was destroyed?? Did he got the same fate as Melkor?