The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - I need a little help..

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I need a little help..

I am toying with the idea of a fanfiction right now, and I want to be as accurate as possible, if you all could give me some onformation, it would be helpful.

Firstly, I need all the information I can get about the White Council, who the members were, how often it met (if there was a set time betwen meetings) where it was held and so on.....

I also need to know exactly what the council did to drive Sauron from Mirkwood.

Ok we all know that some elves just seem to have the gift (?) of healing, but can healers heal themselves?

Is it taxing on a healer's strength to heal another?
(yes, I know these are dumb and annoying questions, but I am a very detailed person.)

I KNOW there were more questions! Wel i'll have to post them later!

Any help will be much appreciated!

Love, Frodo

hmmm, wow, these are all interesting questions. Unfortunatly I only know that the Istari are part of the White Council let's see that would be: Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Alatar and Pallando.

Anyway, interesting questions, sorry I couldn't be more of a help. I'm looking forward too seeing what the answers are going to be.
~LadyElbereth

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: LadyElbereth ]

Well I think the White Council met at Isengard. But other than that.... Oh, but wasn't Galadriel a part of it? I think I remember reading that somewhere...in Unfinished Tales I think? Someone shoot me down if I'm wrong. I wouldn't want to lead Frodo astray.

The Silmarillion says that the White Council consisted of "Elrond and Galadriel and Cirdan, and other lords of the Eldar, (Thraduil? Celeborn? Gildor? Glorfindel?) and with them were Mithrandir (Gandalf) and Curunir (Saruman)."

That's all I know.

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I need a little help..

Frodo, you are beyond help.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Really, I don't have and answer to your question, try reading the apendix in LOTR, probebly all of the info that is possible to get would be in there. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

By the way, have you read the Unfinished Tales? There's a chapter about the Istari in there.

Greetings Frodo! it's been ages!

Well Friends, I know it's not cannon, but I just picked up The Tolkien Companion at a second-hand store for $2 and here is what it has to say;

Quote:

White Council;The council of the wise- the 5 istari (wizards) and the chief Eldar- formed in the late Third Age to co-ordinate policy against Evil in Middle-earth. It was summoned by the Lady Galadriel of Lothlorien and its first chief was Saruman the White. At the time of its founding (2463 Third Age) the chief enemy of the Free Peoples was the "Necromancer" of Dol Guldur, and the over-riding aim of the Wise was the discovery of his true identity; for even at that time there were some who believed that the Necromancer was Sauron himself.

It does not directly name all members and there is another paragraph or tow about the Necromancer and the war of the ring if you are interested in hearing them.

Well, Rae, that helped some. You are the only one that has given a helpful post on here. The other paragraphs on the Necromancer may be helpful.

Got any thoughts on my other questions?

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You [Rae] are the only one that has given a helpful post on here

Well soooorry. You weren't getting any replies at that point and I thought I'd put what I thought I knew in, at any rate...

I've read little of the healers myself but I found a thread about themElvish medicine Perhaps if you don't learn anything helpful on that you can PM someone who seems to.

The rest of the entry White council;

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Nonetheless this was not easy to ascertain. Sauron had, in his turn, perceived the Council from a distance, and had retired into the East to avoid a confrontation with his chief foes, for at that time he was not yet strong enough to challange their combined might. And so the White Council abandoned their fruitless vigil, hoping that the more optimistic assessment of events was accurate. The second meeting was in the year 2851 - but this, too, was a fruitless experience, for the Cpuncil's titular head, Saruman the White, was then already falling into evil waysand he governed the doings of the Council with a firm hand and overrode a projected assault upon Dol Guldur (which had been proposed by Gandalf the Grey) for reasons of his own. Nenety years later the Council met again- and this time Saruman agreed to the attack (again for reasons of his own) and the assault of the Wose upon Sauron was made that same year. Too late. Sauron had meanwhile prepared contingency plans and when the attack came he merely withdrew from Mirkwood and re-entered Mordor long prepared for him.

And so the years drew on on to the War of the Ring. In 2953 The white council met for the last time, and once more Saruman lied to the assembled Wise, misleading most of them concerning the fate of the Ruling Ring. Yet by that time there were some among the Council who were beginning to cherish deep suspicions concerning Saruman himself- and so when the War of the Ring broke out in 3018 Third age, they were not entirely unprepared for the rapid succession of events which followed, not the least of which was the open treachery of Saruman the White, for over five hundred years the leader of the White Council and during all that time the main reason for its singular lack of success.

That concludes my info. Hope that was helpful. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

This is from Appendix B, The Tale of Years:

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2953: Last meeting of the White Council. They debate the Rings. Saruman feigns that he has discovered that the One Ring has passed down Anduin to the Sea. Saruman withdraws to Isengard, which he takes as his own, and fortifies it. (Etc.)

This is what led me to believe that the White Council met at Isengard. Obviously, I was wrong due to a cloudy memory. So I'll retract that statement. Not that I thought anyone belived me...just thought I'd contradict myself before y'all did.

At the risk of sounding rude, which I do not mean to be. Let me ask a simple question. Can one really hope to write decent fan-fiction in M-E without having read darn near everything about it?

- Learn your elvish [or at least be able to make a darn good stab at names] if you plan on creating any. [ see HoME 5 and the index/appendices of UT and Silm]
- have a real good sense of the tale[s] of Years.[RotK and PoME]

- learn everything you can about all of the Maia and High-Elves [ if you are planning on the white council that is]. [Valaquenta in the Silm and UT chapter on the Istari as mentioned] also there is a stunning article on the limitations and not of the Maiar who are closed in the flesh by Jallanite, which again might help immensely w/ background realism see http://pub72.ezboard.com/fosanwefrm8...opicID=8.topic

- learn what you can about the first white council, that preceded the WC of the third age.[Of the Rings of power and the third Age, Glorfindel essay in PoME as a possible member of the Council

- Have a good sense of what the politics of Gondor and Arnor were, in case you want to mention why they did or did not invite the Steward and the Chieftan.

- I could go on, but my point is, is that Middle-Earth is so amazing because all of the strands of history are so interconnected. So in order to attempt to weave another strand you must be intimate w/ all of the surrounding material.

I can tell you what I have done was to take mental notes re: all of the aspects that really touched upon the area I am trying to write on [ elvish singing and thought-sending in my case], and as I make my way through the 20 or so books that touch upon it, I collect the essential quotes.

Good Luck!

If you feel I have been a bit unkind and or hard, feel free to post a scathing review of the begining of my first fan-fic at my Osanwe link below. [ see the weekly articles forum and then the Tale of Linuial post 2]

Well a discussion on the cahtroom last night brought som possibilites to light.

Someone said that the gift of healing seems to only go to thise who are unselfish. If this were true, healers may indees be able to heal themselves, but may not use something so precious selfishly on themselves.

Also, If healing is a sort of power, it may be slightly drainig on the strength of the healer.

Who knows???

1. The White Council

The definite members were Saruman, Gandalf, and Galadriel. It is possible that Elrond was also included, and perhaps other important elves, such as Glorfindel. No doubt Radagast may also have been included.

When they met was never specified. It would seem that they met when there was a problem, and it would seem they met quite often when Sauron was in Dol Guldur, as Saruman kept trying to dissuade them from attacking.

It was never written where they met, as far as I know. I can only assume it would have been in either Lorien, Isengard, or Rivendell. Perhaps it varied.

As for what the Council did that drove Sauron out of Mirkwood, that too was never mentioned. However it would seem that they needn't have done much, as Sauron feigned to flee.

Quote:

…persuaded the Council to attack Dol Guldur first, before he attacked Lorien. We did, and Sauron fled

Unfinished Tales, The Quest of Erebor

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Yet at last, as his shadow grew, Saruman yielded, and the Council put forth its strength and drove the evil out of Mirkwood

Fellowship of the Ring, Council of Elrond

It is never specific.

2. Healing

Can healers heal themselves? I couldn't find any textual evidence, so I'll just give you my view. Do with it as you will.

If a healer was injured, would they be able to heal themselves? It is doubtful whether they would have the strength, or whether they could reach the materials. If it was a minor injury, then I'm sure they could treat it in much the same way as they would to anyone else, but with a major injury, they wouldn't be able to.

As for a healer's strength...I'm unsure. Healers tended to use a lot of herbs etc to heal, it wasn't all their own power.

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I have, maybe, the power to heal her body, and to recall her from the dark valley

Aragorn about Eowyn, The Houses Of Healing

This would indicate that although Aragorn had a lot of power, there was only so far it would go. So I would assume, that the more people that were healed, and the worse the injury, the less effect it would have. The healer would have to recover their own strength before healing more. This could also apply to them healing themselves of course, they could be too weak/injured to help themselves.

Well, this was an extremely long post, but I hope it helped. All the questions are really open to your own interpretation.

Varda