Watcher In The Water
 

Hey everybody.
Is it possible the the Watcher In The Water is a maia enigma as Ungoliant? Anyone that has ANY information on The Watcher please respond.

No, it isn't possible at all. Maia or enigma, can't be both. We know exactly what Maiar are, which precludes them from being enigmatic. Watcher = enigma.

<font color=white> Tolkien never went into any particular depth about the watcher in the water (as far as i know). Somehow, in my humble opinion I don't consider it to be a Maia, so that leaves the possibility - It's an enigma. Sometimes in Tolkien's works there are questions that just don't have answers and we just have to accept it - although i still enjoy debating over what Tom Bombadil really is.

~*Varda Elentari*~

I somehow always thought that the Watcher was just some animal, one of the monsters created by Melcor (or Sauron). IMHO it's not intelligent enough to be a maya or anything like that. Just many arms / or legs and sheer physical strength. http://www.westwoodi.net/~smilies/ga.../tentacles.gif
A great-great...granddad of octopusses and squids.

I agree with Ahktene. The Sil does say Melkor corruptedanimals to make monsters. The Watched might be a descendent of one of some monsters Melkor made as guards.

Hehehe... Cute picture akhtene, and I agree with you.

In the movie (yes, I know there's no valid argument there) it looked like my idea of Poseidon with a lot of tentacles, definitely a little more intelligent and sentient than a big octopus (though squid are awfully smart... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img])

It seemed to know what it was doing in the book too.

Muse, I'm glad you like the picture. Here's another one http://www.westwoodi.net/~smilies/games/bl/skyura.gif
And... well watch-dogs also seem to know what they are doing...

Gross. That looks like something I coughed up when I had a respiratory infection. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] (Just kidding, maybe).

A picture is worth a thousand words. I'm just not sure what this one says...
http://www.island.net/~thlavac/Octo_grb.jpg

<font color=white> AAAGH! That scares me!!!! *runs into a corner*

~*Varda Elentari*~

It does say in FoR, that Gandalf "did not speak aloud his thought that whatever it was that dwelt in the lake, it had seized on Frodo first among all the Company"
Therefore I believe that the Watcher was some kind of servant of Sauron. Either that or it knew that Frodo was carrying the ring and wanted it for itself to put on it's tentacle.
Lord Watcher in the Water!
Could you imagine it, a massive war,
Sauron vs The Watcher In The Water

If you remember from the book in the Chamber of Mazarbul, the Watcher was also responsible for the death of some of Balin's dwarves. It prevented them from leaving and thus was responsible, in a way, for their ultimate demise. Still, I doubt that the creature 'served' Sauron purposely, but it certainly served his purposes. I forget the exact text, but the hints of 'creatures' lying beneath the earth could definitely mean more than just Balrogs. The idea that the Watcher was a monster is most likely the closest to the truth.

Looking at it from a more literary view, it seemed to me that Tolkien meant for the watcher to be some ancient creature, not owning allegiance to any other. It did not seem as though the watcher's attraction to Frodo was to retrieve the ring for a master, but only to (as was said before in this thread)use it for its own purposes.
Also, from a very personal point of view, I almost feel as though the watcher was not entirely evil, but only evil toward the fellowship. I view the watcher as a third party, that would just as easily attack an orc as an elf.

A few points:

1. The pool in which the Watcher resided was artificially created. Remember? The pool level was low -- that's why the Fellowship could get to the door at all.

2. Sauron's henchmen (hench-orcs?) dammed the pool in the first place.

3. How did the Watcher get into the pool? Did the orcs haul it up from some forsaken underground lake deep below Moria? It probably didn't crawl up there by itself -- or did it? By Sauron's command?

4. Where did the ugly critter come from?

I think if you can answer the question of the Watcher's nativity, you will answer the other questions regarding its allegiance to Sauron, etc. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]