Arwen could've gone to the Grey Havens?
 

I'm reading LOTR for the third time right now, and I was glancing in the appendix of the third book to brush up on Arwen and Aragorn's history (since among friends I'm Arwen) and I found some info on Legolas and how he went to the Havens. It said that Legolas left for the Havens with Gimli AFTER Aragorn died, so when Arwen said that she couldn't have left to the Havens even if she had wanted to, she lied! I'm just frustrated because I believe that if she could've gone to the Havens, she should have! I understand that she loved Aragorn and all, but she still had life left to live! (a lot of it being immortal) And she could've done something great with her immense time left. Tell me if I messed up on the info or not, I think that she should've gone with Legolas and Gimli (I laugh every time I picture poor Gimli in the Grey Havens surrounded by elves!)

Don't get too angry! When Arwen decided not to go to the Havens and marry Aragorn, she chose to be mortal, therefore giving up her right to go. When an Elf chooses to be mortal, they still have long life, like Elros, but they still die. She chose to remain in Middle Earth, and let Frodo go in her place.

Not "in her place". As a Ring-bearer, it was Frodo's right to go to the Undying Lands irregardless of how many Elves did or did not go. Bilbo went for the same reason.

Return of the King
"A gift I will give to you. For I am the daughter of Elrond. I shall not go with him now to the Havens; for mine is the choice of Luthien and as she so have I chosen, both the sweet and the bitter. But in my stead you shall go, Ring-bearer, when the time comes and if you then desire it."

So Frodo does take Arwen's place, whether he would otherwise have a right to go or not (which I agree, he does).

Also I think this passage explains Arwen's choice very well, she has chosen "both the sweet and the bitter..." she can not have the best of both worlds.

Just a quick observation. Arwen was not an elf, she was a Peredhil, just like her brothers Elladan and Elrohir. When their father Elrond departed from ME, they had to make the choice of remaining in ME or leaving with him to the Undying lands.

Maédhros is correct.

Elrond's family/parents were half-elven - part man, part elf. Eru (God - Creator of Middle-earth) granted them a choice - to share the fate of elves (immortality) or the fate of man (mortality). Elrond chose to be immortal, and his children, Elladan, Elrohir, and Arwen had until he left to decide. Arwen chose to be mortal when Elrond left, and she was mortal forever. She was never immortal to begin with - she just had a while to make her choice. There's much more on this subject that you can read in my article here:

http://www.barrowdowns.com/faq_halfelves.asp

Susan Delgado:

It was not a right. It was a privelege.

[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: Legalos ]

Arwen and her brothers had a mother too, you know!
A mother who was pure Elf (daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn). That makes them rather more than half-elven...

I am fully aware Arwen had an elven mother.

That's not really the focus. Of those dubbed 'half-elven,' Elwing was the only one that may have been exactly half and half.

The point was that they had blood from both man and elf, and subsequently, it was not clear as to which race they would share fate with. Did you read the article?

[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: Legalos ]

right, but legolas and gimli did not go to the grwy havens they bulit a boat and sailed down the anduin(or some other river)

um yes gimly and leoglas did go to the gray havens [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Note the bold text: Legolas and Gimli did not set sail from the Grey Havens, nor did they accompany Gandalf there to say goodbye.

I know this is off topic and I apologize, but I always loved the way this is written. Using phrases like, "we have heard tell" and "it is said" implies that we don't know for sure. It is briliant the way Tolkien leaves this ambiguous, like it is real history. Marvelous.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

H.C.