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Aragorn2002 01-13-2003 09:44 PM

In The Hobbit...
 
Does anyone know why trolls turn to stone when the sun comes up? I might o missed it.
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Deathwail 01-13-2003 10:15 PM

There really is not a whole lot of Lore about Trolls what they are or where-who made them, pretty much cause all the books are seen from the point of view of the " good " side and most evil stuff like Dragons and Trolls are only lightly gone into ( like just what a Balrog looked like or what form of life did Meklor twist to make the Dragons).And the Trolls from the Hobbit are some of the early ideas he had for Trolls and are not quite the bruts that they are in the later books.Just my take on it i am sure other ppl could add more. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Deathwail 01-14-2003 05:47 AM

Just a guess on why they turn to stone, the Maiden Arien from among the Maiar is who the Valar chose to guide the Sun.Servants of Meklor could not endure her glance it was said so maybe Trolls of all of Meklors fellbeasts if indeed they where of his making could endure it the least and would return to their natural form (stone).Another guess would be they are just beasts from before the lighting of the Trees of Valar and just happen to not be able to stand light for whatever reason but i dont think Tolkien ever really said why.

Mithadan 01-14-2003 08:28 AM

You may want to look under the Articles section (linked to our Main page) in which Barrow Wight and Mr. Underhill have point/counterpoint articles about Trolls. An interesting debate.

Aule 01-14-2003 08:30 AM

I'm sure i remember something said by Treebeard saying that Trolls were mockeries of Ents created by Melkor, well not created as he couldn't create, but twisted some other form of life into it.
Ok i didn't answer the question on why they turn to stone but at least we get an idea of where they come from

Child of the 7th Age 01-14-2003 08:50 AM

Some of this also relates to the ancient Nordic tales from which Tolkien drew his inspiration.

One of Tolkien's colleagues at Oxford, Helen Buckhust, published a paper in 1928-29 which discussed Icelandic folklore. JRRT was undoubtedly familiar with it.

This paper cited an ancient tale about a household where whoever kept watch on Yule night when the family went to church was found dead or mad the next morning. One year, a young girl volunteered for the job, along with a baby whom she dandled on her knee. By chance, she sang to the baby a lay about an evil "Thing" at her window and also how that Thing was commanded to turn to stone by the time the morning sun rose.

Unbeknown to the girl, there was such a Thing looking in, and the next morning when folk came back from church they found a great stone standing between the ridges of the roof "and there it has stood ever since."

It is also said in Norwegian folktales that when Trolls are caught in the sunlight, they burst into pieces.

[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

littlemanpoet 01-14-2003 02:29 PM

This also relates to the four elements: earth, air, fire, water. Trolls are thought to be earth elementals come to life, so to speak; who knows? Maybe sunlight zaps them of their air and water, leaving only stone? Just a guess based on a surmise.... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Aragorn2002 01-15-2003 05:52 PM

thanks everyone
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Raefindel 01-15-2003 09:33 PM

This is from The Tolkien Companion ;

Quote:

...Yet one memory has lingered with espeical clarity: the association of the Troll-race with stone, the substance of their being. Trolls bore thesame relationship to stone as Ents did to wood; of stone they were made in theri beginning, and to stone they returned if caught by the direct rays of the noonday Sun; for like the Orcs they were bred during the years of the Great Darkness of the First Age, and so the Sun was their enemy...
So it seems that everyone's guesses were very educated guesses. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

doug*platypus 01-16-2003 03:41 AM

While far from infallible, it seems that in this case the Companion has hit on a very good point. The fact that Trolls seemingly returned to stone seems to hint at the fact that they were created from that stuff, rather than being corrupted Ents (although I'm not convinced that Treebeard thinks Trolls were made from Ents).

They were creatures of the Darkness that ruled Middle-Earth when Melkor was unchecked and only Valinor had the light of the Two Trees. His spells were either not powerful enough, or did not take account at all of the Sun. Arien had a strong power against even Melkor, after all. Maybe in a way, her 'magic' was stronger than the spells that kept Trolls animated, in much the same way as Merry's barrowblade destroyed the spells that let the Witch-king survive in physical form.


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