The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - The Westgate Pool and the Watcher in the Water

***Sharkû*** · 10-20-2002, 02:32 PM

When the Fellowship came to the location of the former Sirannon, Gandalf was surprised to see it dried out, and the Westgate valley in front of Moria flooded. This very ignorance of the wizard seems surprising in itself – since the water and the Watcher had already reached the western gate at the end of the colonizing attempt by Balin and others in 2994, almost 25 years before the Fellowship came there.

“The pool is up to the wall at Westgate. The Watcher in the Water took Óin. We cannot get out” is what is written in the Book of Mazarbul, and Gandalf does not share much more information about either the pool or the Watcher with the reader, either.

Therefore, the questions remain, how come the valley was flooded, and how did the Watcher, leaving aside its mysterious origin and nature, get there?

What the text of The Lord of the Rings somehow seems to imply is that the Watcher itself steadily dammed the Gatestream, and when it had become the lake that filled the valley, it resided there. However, at second looks, I begin to wonder whether that is really the most plausible explanation for the flooding of the valley, and I am not sure the Watcher would have been independent from the ongoing war between the dwarves and the orcs, only taking the toils of damming the stream in order to catch Óin or another dwarf or orc, when it did not appear in records before that and therefore apparently did not need much contact with the world outside the cavernous streams of Moria.

If it was the orcs who dammed the river in order to keep the dwarves shut in from the west, they did not really succeed; in fact, they only lessened their way of assault (and they left the hollin trees at the gate stand, highly unlikely).

Telchar made the interesting point that the dwarves probably were able to flood the valley of the Westgate at will as a defense mechanism. From what I’ve read, I like the idea and find it well possible. We would have to imagine that something went wrong, the Watcher came and made the flooding irreversible. The idea seems supported again by the Mazarbul: “They seem to have made a last stand by both doors.” Defending the narrow causeway must have been easier than defending the whole valley. Incidentally, it would only be too interesting to know what side the Watcher would have fought on, if any.

But what of the Watcher in the Water itself? It seems very unlikely that the dwarves wanted it to be in the pool to ward of the orcs, but it seems well possible the other way around. How, and if, the orcs could have lured a creature far beyond their power would remain speculation. The Watcher most likely just found a convenient way to the surface and a supply of prey in form of the pool, I’d say.

Apart from the side remarks, it boils downs to the question of what came first, and whence – the pool or the Watcher?

10-20-2002, 02:32 PM	#1
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	The Westgate Pool and the Watcher in the Water When the Fellowship came to the location of the former Sirannon, Gandalf was surprised to see it dried out, and the Westgate valley in front of Moria flooded. This very ignorance of the wizard seems surprising in itself – since the water and the Watcher had already reached the western gate at the end of the colonizing attempt by Balin and others in 2994, almost 25 years before the Fellowship came there. “The pool is up to the wall at Westgate. The Watcher in the Water took Óin. We cannot get out” is what is written in the Book of Mazarbul, and Gandalf does not share much more information about either the pool or the Watcher with the reader, either. Therefore, the questions remain, how come the valley was flooded, and how did the Watcher, leaving aside its mysterious origin and nature, get there? What the text of The Lord of the Rings somehow seems to imply is that the Watcher itself steadily dammed the Gatestream, and when it had become the lake that filled the valley, it resided there. However, at second looks, I begin to wonder whether that is really the most plausible explanation for the flooding of the valley, and I am not sure the Watcher would have been independent from the ongoing war between the dwarves and the orcs, only taking the toils of damming the stream in order to catch Óin or another dwarf or orc, when it did not appear in records before that and therefore apparently did not need much contact with the world outside the cavernous streams of Moria. If it was the orcs who dammed the river in order to keep the dwarves shut in from the west, they did not really succeed; in fact, they only lessened their way of assault (and they left the hollin trees at the gate stand, highly unlikely). Telchar made the interesting point that the dwarves probably were able to flood the valley of the Westgate at will as a defense mechanism. From what I’ve read, I like the idea and find it well possible. We would have to imagine that something went wrong, the Watcher came and made the flooding irreversible. The idea seems supported again by the Mazarbul: “They seem to have made a last stand by both doors.” Defending the narrow causeway must have been easier than defending the whole valley. Incidentally, it would only be too interesting to know what side the Watcher would have fought on, if any. But what of the Watcher in the Water itself? It seems very unlikely that the dwarves wanted it to be in the pool to ward of the orcs, but it seems well possible the other way around. How, and if, the orcs could have lured a creature far beyond their power would remain speculation. The Watcher most likely just found a convenient way to the surface and a supply of prey in form of the pool, I’d say. Apart from the side remarks, it boils downs to the question of what came first, and whence – the pool or the Watcher?