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bombur · 12-12-2002, 08:52 AM

I must disagree with Paladin. The fact that the ring does not affect Tom proves nothing. If Tom is Maiar, he like Sauron needs not become invisible. And the lust for the ring is not lust for the ring itself merely. The ring corrupts moreso by the power it gives, then in itself. Gandalf clearly states the REASONS why he dares not touch it. He is not without (benevolent) ambitions. Being so concretically and lucratively offerred power to fulfill them, he fears he might not be able to resist temptation. This correlation exists through the book. Smeagol succumbs to the ring, while Deagol does not seem to. Smeagol lusts for power. Bilbo and Frodo are to a great degree unnaffected. They, like most hobbits, desire little pleasures of life. Sam seems totally unnaffected. He is kind and brave, but lets face it. Sam is simpleton not desiring anything beyond fullfilling ones duty, being loyal to ones friends, seeing wonderful things and tending a garden. Boromir succumbs. He desires power. Power in war, power to rule, fame as a savior and hero.

Lust for the ring is in great part lust for power.

Tom has no desires. He is. Other beings might have as well been safe from the lust for ring. Radagast "the simpleton", "the bird tamer" might have been one. Galadriel was able to resist the temptation. The ring was not magically beaconing to her. She was tempted by power, but she decided to "diminish, go to west and remain Galadriel." Most likely the only human who could have safely handled the ring would have been the master of the prancing pony.

Immunity to the lust for the ring does not arise from power, but rather from being content to things and oneself "as are." Being happy and simple qualifies. Being powerful enough to be exactly what one wants qualifies as well. So does having found/accepted ones place and lot in life.

***

I think Tom was Maiar as are all the "ancient" spirits/beings in LOTR. I mean including treebeard and the great eagles. I'll dig out my silmarillion and LOTR and check, if I can back this consept with exact quotes. However I see it like this. In the begining there was already a great amount of "spirits" some of them participating in the song with eru, some not. Theese spirits were of varying degrees of power (...and perchance - age). Mightiest among them being Melkor.

Then when arda was created, many decended there. Some of the more powerful became valar. Many clad themselves like the valar and became the maiar serving them. Some took residence among the kelvar and olvar or something (I think this is said in the discussion between Yawanna and Eru.) This is the origin of the eagles and ents. The eagles and ents living in the end of the 3rd age are either decendants of maiar and mortal animal/plant, or maiar who have lived in mortal body long enough to forget almost all of what they were. Some of them did not go to live with valar, but rather to live with the land, so to say. One of theese spirits/maiar is Tom. Or maybe he is not exactly maiar... if maiar means one of the servants of valar. But I think Tom is definately of the same stock as were maiar, valar, dragons, werewolves and the first ents and eagles.

[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: bombur ]

12-12-2002, 08:52 AM	#60
bombur Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: finland Posts: 126	I must disagree with Paladin. The fact that the ring does not affect Tom proves nothing. If Tom is Maiar, he like Sauron needs not become invisible. And the lust for the ring is not lust for the ring itself merely. The ring corrupts moreso by the power it gives, then in itself. Gandalf clearly states the REASONS why he dares not touch it. He is not without (benevolent) ambitions. Being so concretically and lucratively offerred power to fulfill them, he fears he might not be able to resist temptation. This correlation exists through the book. Smeagol succumbs to the ring, while Deagol does not seem to. Smeagol lusts for power. Bilbo and Frodo are to a great degree unnaffected. They, like most hobbits, desire little pleasures of life. Sam seems totally unnaffected. He is kind and brave, but lets face it. Sam is simpleton not desiring anything beyond fullfilling ones duty, being loyal to ones friends, seeing wonderful things and tending a garden. Boromir succumbs. He desires power. Power in war, power to rule, fame as a savior and hero. Lust for the ring is in great part lust for power. Tom has no desires. He is. Other beings might have as well been safe from the lust for ring. Radagast "the simpleton", "the bird tamer" might have been one. Galadriel was able to resist the temptation. The ring was not magically beaconing to her. She was tempted by power, but she decided to "diminish, go to west and remain Galadriel." Most likely the only human who could have safely handled the ring would have been the master of the prancing pony. Immunity to the lust for the ring does not arise from power, but rather from being content to things and oneself "as are." Being happy and simple qualifies. Being powerful enough to be exactly what one wants qualifies as well. So does having found/accepted ones place and lot in life. *** I think Tom was Maiar as are all the "ancient" spirits/beings in LOTR. I mean including treebeard and the great eagles. I'll dig out my silmarillion and LOTR and check, if I can back this consept with exact quotes. However I see it like this. In the begining there was already a great amount of "spirits" some of them participating in the song with eru, some not. Theese spirits were of varying degrees of power (...and perchance - age). Mightiest among them being Melkor. Then when arda was created, many decended there. Some of the more powerful became valar. Many clad themselves like the valar and became the maiar serving them. Some took residence among the kelvar and olvar or something (I think this is said in the discussion between Yawanna and Eru.) This is the origin of the eagles and ents. The eagles and ents living in the end of the 3rd age are either decendants of maiar and mortal animal/plant, or maiar who have lived in mortal body long enough to forget almost all of what they were. Some of them did not go to live with valar, but rather to live with the land, so to say. One of theese spirits/maiar is Tom. Or maybe he is not exactly maiar... if maiar means one of the servants of valar. But I think Tom is definately of the same stock as were maiar, valar, dragons, werewolves and the first ents and eagles. [ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: bombur ]