This is the summary of conclusions reached upon orcs in another debate
(here):
12 Orkish Statements:
1. Orcs have different origins, including beasts, men and elves. Great orcish leaders (Boldog) were orcish hroa inhabited by corrupted Maiar.
2. Those of beast origin need direct control of evil mind (i.e. Morgoth or Sauron) to act with some purpose, otherwise they “stray aimlessly”.
3. The elvish and mannish orcs are capable of independent action in those “good old days”, when Sauron is out of the stage.
4. The elvish and mannish orcs definitely have fear.
5. The elv-orcish fea has a right of elvish one to go to Mandos, repent and rebuild its hroa, yet it is not certain what would be it’s physical appearance – that of an orc, for hroa is rebuild out of fea’s memories of it, or, repenting, it acquires ability to rebuild for it proper purely elvish hroa. On the other side, is has the right to refuse the summons and remain in Hither Lands as houseless ghost or wraith.
6. Mannish fea goes out of the confines of the world
7. Orcs are capable to be interbred with men even in the third age, thus acts Saruman, as well as Sauron, producing new type of “man-orc”
8. Beast-orcs must be considered innocent in a way, for they are just tormented and perverted animals, Kevlar with no free will
9. Elvish and Mannish orcs posses free will, as all the Children of Eru, however suppressed by horror of Dark Lord, therefore they are not irredeemable and must be considered sinners, even those natural born ones, thus being distinguished from beast-orcs. Elvish and Mannish orcs know the Good from the Evil and appreciate the good (see Shagrat and Gorbag converse, were “elvish trick” of leaving companions is evaluated to be bad, and generally ascribed to the other side)
10.All the Orcs hate the Dark Lord for what was done to them, but the hatred is suppressed by horror, and they hate peoples of free and good will still more.
11.Elven-Orcs especially dislike the elves proper, and receive the same feeling from the other side
12.Elven-orcs have usual elven longivety, therefore , for instance, some of them can recall and recognize items of several thousand years of age (Orcrist and Glamdring recognized by orcs in “The Hobbit” [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Entry 5 of the above must be altered though, since:
Quote:
HoME XII, LATE WRITINGS.
'houseless' fea was enabled to rebuild its hroa from its memory became my father's "firm and stable view of the matter", "as appears from very late writing on the subject of the reincarnation of Glorfindel of Gondolin". This is erroneous. This last discussion of Elvish reincarnation refers only to the "restoration", "reconstitution" of the former body by the Valar, and makes no mention of the idea that it could be achieved by the 'houseless fea' operating of itself
|
and instead of
for hroa is rebuild out of fea’s memories will read somehow thus:
The decesion to rebuild its hroa lies with the Valar
[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]