I assume we can move along to elvish free will thread if bidden. But so far we are here, I’ll post some comments on above said here [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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This is the danger when we define rational beings, not by what they are, but by what they do The powers of the rational soul can not be used to define, only to deduce, the nature of the rational soul.
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Accepted. Definitely. But it seems to me I failed to express myself clearly. Free will exercised is faculty, <font color="FF0013">right to exercise it is essential. Given evidence convinces me that only humans have “right” of free will. And in case of Middle Earth the right is extended to elves (and dwarves) also. Let me further clarify: there is some standard against which “goodness” of “evilness” of any given person is measured. Of course I use rational thinking to judge which of possible actions conform to this standard and which not. This is action. But the right to perform such an action is not action in itself and is what makes me human. If I were stone, there would be no action of choosing whether fall on the ground or stay in the thin air for me. Just obedience. I’m free to disobey. Motto is not “I think therefore I am”, nor “I choose therefore I am”, but “I have right to choose, therefore I am”
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Thankfully, the ability to exercise the power of free will is not what defines us as humans. Likewise, I don’t think the exercise of free will would define elves and elves.
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Accepted again. Not ability, the
right to exercise it would
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It follows that those who are unable to choose are not human ... Thus, someone who is unconscious ceases to be human
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It follows not. For the right is still there. (condsider series of statements: “all humans have right to be educated” , “one yer study in University costs 20000$”, and “my income is 15000$”. Conclusions? “I’m unable to study at the university”. Is my right damaged? No, for I’m unable to study due to external reasons, but i still retain the right. Not ability, but right is what defines me as a human. Or, to put it differently, broken PC is still PC, though is is “unable to operate”
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Thus, if free will is the essence of man, then man ceases to be man when he achieves his final end.
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No, because right is still there. I may be quite content with the situation and not performing “act of free will”, so not choosing to change anything. But that does not mean I have no right. Hey, man, the whole Melkor/Morgoth (evil elves, fallen men etc etc) situation occurred because of this right...
[ November 06, 2002: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]