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Kalimac · 11-02-2002, 02:39 AM

OK, Rumil, I will rise to the bait [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. (My knowledge of Tolkien's life is rather sketchy but I'll try).

Tolkien's father died when he was very young and his mother raised him and his brother alone until she died as well, which event I *believe* happened when Tolkien was 8 or so (might be off a few years on this). He was then given to the guardianship of a priest and brought up in fairly masculine society. However, his mother must have had a strong influence on him - she had become (against the wishes of her family) Roman Catholic, and when her husband died and she was left without much, her family wouldn't have anything to do with her, since she had gone over to (gasp!) the Scarlet Woman. They probably would have helped her out if she had un-converted, so to speak, but she was very proud and wouldn't do it; in fact, by bringing her sons up Catholic and giving their care to a priest, rather than her family, when she died, she was actually pretty defiant. Shades of Galadriel defying her family, perhaps?

As for Edith - I've never seen much to indicate that she had a particularly aggressive personality, but she did do several strong things, including having a romance with Tolkien until it was expressly forbidden (and even then they corresponded - since only meeting had been expressly forbidden, not *writing* - until Tolkien's guardian twigged to that one and forbade writing as well). When Tolkien turned 21 and sought her out, she was engaged to someone else, but promptly broke her engagement to marry him; this couldn't have thrilled her family too much. Tolkien himself saw a parallel with Luthien Tinuviel in Edith, and I'd guess it was largely because she and Tolkien sought each other out, and because they married despite the fact that neither was the other family's approved choice.

So yes, the academic society that he moved in was fairly masculine, but it seems that both his mother and his wife were capable of some fairly stubborn/heroic actions. Maybe this is why there are so few women in LOTR, but they inevitably are magnificent when they do appear?

Just my $0.02.

11-02-2002, 02:39 AM	#17
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	OK, Rumil, I will rise to the bait [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. (My knowledge of Tolkien's life is rather sketchy but I'll try). Tolkien's father died when he was very young and his mother raised him and his brother alone until she died as well, which event I believe happened when Tolkien was 8 or so (might be off a few years on this). He was then given to the guardianship of a priest and brought up in fairly masculine society. However, his mother must have had a strong influence on him - she had become (against the wishes of her family) Roman Catholic, and when her husband died and she was left without much, her family wouldn't have anything to do with her, since she had gone over to (gasp!) the Scarlet Woman. They probably would have helped her out if she had un-converted, so to speak, but she was very proud and wouldn't do it; in fact, by bringing her sons up Catholic and giving their care to a priest, rather than her family, when she died, she was actually pretty defiant. Shades of Galadriel defying her family, perhaps? As for Edith - I've never seen much to indicate that she had a particularly aggressive personality, but she did do several strong things, including having a romance with Tolkien until it was expressly forbidden (and even then they corresponded - since only meeting had been expressly forbidden, not writing - until Tolkien's guardian twigged to that one and forbade writing as well). When Tolkien turned 21 and sought her out, she was engaged to someone else, but promptly broke her engagement to marry him; this couldn't have thrilled her family too much. Tolkien himself saw a parallel with Luthien Tinuviel in Edith, and I'd guess it was largely because she and Tolkien sought each other out, and because they married despite the fact that neither was the other family's approved choice. So yes, the academic society that he moved in was fairly masculine, but it seems that both his mother and his wife were capable of some fairly stubborn/heroic actions. Maybe this is why there are so few women in LOTR, but they inevitably are magnificent when they do appear? Just my $0.02. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.