<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 82</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Orcish Fear
Orcs as corrupted elves.
Problems here, not only from Tolkien's own conception (which changed later), but story internal also.
If Orcs are corrupted Elves, then upon death they would travel to the halls of Mandos. We now come upon the re-housing problem for those who realize the 'error' of their ways. The Hroa is in accord with the fea's rememberance of it. Anything else would be unnatural, so; same bodies upon re-housing. Some could argue that they were corruptions, but of the orcs born as orcs, what of them? They have no other rememberance, nor real choice in development. That's alot of fear to submit to Eru for re-birth in other bodies as children to escape this problem of natural affinity. This addresses only some of the problems associated with this idea.
Orcs as Beasts.
No problems of Fea and Hroa really. Nothing more than trained monkeys who mimic speech like parrots. Is this workable? To 'some' degree. Front-line troops, garrisons, etc are fine for this. Halls of Mandos are left out of the equation, so no need to delve into re-housing, re-birth, etc. Do orcs exhibit some degree of intelligence? Yes. Could 'trained monkeys' develop this intelligence after centuries? Possibly.
Orcs as Maiar.
No problems with Fea/Hroa situation. Could Maiar show the level of basic intelligence and speech that is evidenced in orcs? Really dumb Maiar I suppose.
Orcs as Men.
Still no real problems with fea/hroa situation as Men go elsewhere not known to elves. Intelligence levels would be comparable in the environment.
I believe this may be why Tolkien seems to have decided that there were various forms of orcs.
Maia forms as strong leaders.
Mannish/and possibly Elvish (although Tolkien doubts that elves were corrupted so) forms to control the numerous troops.
Beast forms to make up the bulk of the armies.
Since there are interbreedings between Orcs and men in LOTR (Saruman's troops etc) then orcs MUST have some compatability with men, which removes the idea of ALL orcs as beasts.
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