[Bill Ferny]

I agree that Tolkien included the fall of man. However, there is still a serious repercussion in making the fall of Arda separate from the fall of elf/human/dwarf, and this repercussion indicates something about Eru that makes Eru very different from the Christian God.

The Christian God, when He creates human beings, gives them everything, and every chance. It is through human disobedience that all of creation is corrupted, thus all human suffering and the multiplication of sin has at its root human free will. Eru, however, has elf/human/dwarf awake in a world where they are destined for failure because that world in which they awake is already fallen. Suffering, doubt, violent death (a free choosing when someone dies is not freedom from violent death; violent death means a rending of the human person because of the separation of the rational soul from the body), misconception, and shadowed perception all exist as a pre-condition of Arda. In other words, what we Christians would call the condition of original sin already existed before elf/human/dwarf.

Given such a condition, how could one expect that all elves/humans/dwarves would not eventually sin? Is not the condition of Arda excuse enough for humans to worship Melkor? I mean, they are already suffering the pains of a fallen world, given to doubt, facing a great unknown after death, capable of misconstruing even the most simple aspects of reality. Is it any wonder that a powerful figure like Melkor should eventually fool suffering elf/human/dwarf. Don’t forget that Melkor managed to fool many of the Valar, themselves, for a time.

I just don’t see how the Tale of Adanel can speak of how human beings are abjured by Eru, and how Eru can punish human beings by shortening their lives when the fall of human beings seems to be caused more by Eru’s incompetence than a short coming on the part of humans.

True one can argue that despite fallen nature, elves/humans/dwarves would still have free-will. In every discussion about free-will on this forum, the Christian perspective has never really been adequately explained. I don’t presume to do so here, mainly because this post would become a short book. But let it suffice to say that while free-will is a natural power, free will in a fallen condition (for the Christian) can not achieve its greatest liberty… the freedom to choose rightly. In the Christian mythos, the law of the old disposition (Old Testament) is present because humans no longer have the ability to choose rightly given their own devises, because of their fallen condition. Not until the new disposition of Jesus Christ has grace made it possible for human free-will to choose rightly free of the law. Only via grace, can human beings choose rightly despite a fallen condition.

Now in Tolkien’s mythology, there is no Christ-figure, and thus no allegory for grace. Elves/humans/dwarves, therefore, if we are to take Tolkien’s faith seriously, would not have the ability to choose rightly, and thus their free-will can not achieve its greatest liberty. So, even though, elves/humans/dwarves do have free-will, Tolkien couldn’t possibly conceive of them choosing rightly given the fallen condition of Arda, and on top of that, the presence of a figure like Melkor in the world.

So, I’m still forced to concede that Eru is a mean god.

[ January 07, 2003: Message edited by: Bill Ferny ]