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Thingol · 01-15-2002, 04:33 PM

Carannillion, you are partially correct, but it was Tolkien that did the merging, not Morgoth. Tolkien spoke of spirits called Boldogs in Morgoth’s Ring that were of much lesser power than the Balrogs. It is conceivable that Tolkien desired to transform the many of the numerous Balrogs that he mentions in earlier works into Boldogs, leaving a few very powerful Balrogs; but he died before he could ever reconcile the problems arising from the numbers of Balrogs around. As for the numbers three or seven, three clearly does not work, it does not leave room for the one that Gandalf killed. As for seven Balrogs, this was merely a note scribbled in a margin by Chris Tolkien and can not really be considered a definite number. Tolkien clearly wished t decrease the number of Balrogs, but to me the number seven seems like too extreme a reduction. The newest Silmarillion makes it seem like there is a small host of Balrogs, perhaps 20-50 at most. However, that is just a feeling I get from reading the Silm, it does not say any specific number anywhere in the new Silm, I don’t know about the older one though, I have never read it. This topic is discussed in detail in the new Silm project.

[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ]

01-15-2002, 04:33 PM	#16
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	Carannillion, you are partially correct, but it was Tolkien that did the merging, not Morgoth. Tolkien spoke of spirits called Boldogs in Morgoth’s Ring that were of much lesser power than the Balrogs. It is conceivable that Tolkien desired to transform the many of the numerous Balrogs that he mentions in earlier works into Boldogs, leaving a few very powerful Balrogs; but he died before he could ever reconcile the problems arising from the numbers of Balrogs around. As for the numbers three or seven, three clearly does not work, it does not leave room for the one that Gandalf killed. As for seven Balrogs, this was merely a note scribbled in a margin by Chris Tolkien and can not really be considered a definite number. Tolkien clearly wished t decrease the number of Balrogs, but to me the number seven seems like too extreme a reduction. The newest Silmarillion makes it seem like there is a small host of Balrogs, perhaps 20-50 at most. However, that is just a feeling I get from reading the Silm, it does not say any specific number anywhere in the new Silm, I don’t know about the older one though, I have never read it. This topic is discussed in detail in the new Silm project. [ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ] __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.