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mark12_30 · 01-16-2004, 09:50 AM

davem, you need a copy of The Letters. Go buy one or borrow it from the library!

Child, I spent all last evening scanning the letters for discussions of what the One Ring does. Preservation is mentioned, but in the same discussion that preservation is also discussed as the "thin, stretched, wire-pulled-tighter or butter scraped over too much bread" kind of preservation. No more life, just prolonging, so it becomes a torment.

Frodo didn't personally hear Bilbo speak his "Thin, like butter" line, so perhaps he was less aware of it than Gandalf (or us). I guess I'm still struggling with the idea that Frodo would have fallen for that deception. He's brighter than that. I don't think he would have wanted to see Bilbo "stretched" and just continuing. I think he would have turned from that idea. And really, how would the Ring have prolonged Bilbo's life? Is there any evidence that a Ring of power prolongs anybody mortal's life besides the bearer/wearer? (Are you including "The Mouth of Sauron" in the list of the things that the Ring preserved, even though Sauron wasn't wielding it during the War? I'll have to think that one over.)

As far as saving the Shire: Same question. If he had access to one of the Elven Rings I can see your point. But the One Ring wasn't made with preservation in mind, was it? Frodo said to Faramir, "Would you have two Minas Morguls grinning at each other?" He had seen the Ringwraiths face to face; he knew what "neither living nor dead" means. I don't see that as much of a temptation for him, nor turning the Shire into another Minas Morgul. He always shrank from that sort of thing.

But all along the trip, he kept saying "The Burden is Mine." He was (I think) proud of carrying it. And the martyr's complex there is pretty obvious.

So-- for preservtion of The Shire (and Bilbo)-- I see that he would want those things, yes, but I'm just not convinced he'd buy the Rings' offer to do it. He knew better, and I think his "good hobbit sense" would have told him (as it told Sam) that such things would not be.

But-- "I begin to see it with my waking eyes." All he could see was the Ring; he couldn't SEE the Shire anymore; I don't see how he could be clinging to it anymore. So I go back to his own words at Sammath Naur-- not "Now I can save The Shire", but simply and directly, "The Ring is mine." I really think that's the core of it. I think by Sammath Naur he'd even been stripped of The Shire, just as he said.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 11:08 AM January 16, 2004: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

01-16-2004, 09:50 AM	#34
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	davem, you need a copy of The Letters. Go buy one or borrow it from the library! Child, I spent all last evening scanning the letters for discussions of what the One Ring does. Preservation is mentioned, but in the same discussion that preservation is also discussed as the "thin, stretched, wire-pulled-tighter or butter scraped over too much bread" kind of preservation. No more life, just prolonging, so it becomes a torment. Frodo didn't personally hear Bilbo speak his "Thin, like butter" line, so perhaps he was less aware of it than Gandalf (or us). I guess I'm still struggling with the idea that Frodo would have fallen for that deception. He's brighter than that. I don't think he would have wanted to see Bilbo "stretched" and just continuing. I think he would have turned from that idea. And really, how would the Ring have prolonged Bilbo's life? Is there any evidence that a Ring of power prolongs anybody mortal's life besides the bearer/wearer? (Are you including "The Mouth of Sauron" in the list of the things that the Ring preserved, even though Sauron wasn't wielding it during the War? I'll have to think that one over.) As far as saving the Shire: Same question. If he had access to one of the Elven Rings I can see your point. But the One Ring wasn't made with preservation in mind, was it? Frodo said to Faramir, "Would you have two Minas Morguls grinning at each other?" He had seen the Ringwraiths face to face; he knew what "neither living nor dead" means. I don't see that as much of a temptation for him, nor turning the Shire into another Minas Morgul. He always shrank from that sort of thing. But all along the trip, he kept saying "The Burden is Mine." He was (I think) proud of carrying it. And the martyr's complex there is pretty obvious. So-- for preservtion of The Shire (and Bilbo)-- I see that he would want those things, yes, but I'm just not convinced he'd buy the Rings' offer to do it. He knew better, and I think his "good hobbit sense" would have told him (as it told Sam) that such things would not be. But-- "I begin to see it with my waking eyes." All he could see was the Ring; he couldn't SEE the Shire anymore; I don't see how he could be clinging to it anymore. So I go back to his own words at Sammath Naur-- not "Now I can save The Shire", but simply and directly, "The Ring is mine." I really think that's the core of it. I think by Sammath Naur he'd even been stripped of The Shire, just as he said. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 11:08 AM January 16, 2004: Message edited by: mark12_30 ] __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.