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Old 01-18-2003, 07:49 AM   #19
bombur
Wight
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: finland
Posts: 126
bombur has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I think we can rule out the possibility of the seven kings being valar. I mean that likely even Saurons ambition did not go that far. I mean the istari and maiar are a weight class or two below them. Sauron attacked Valinor once only to do away with the men of Numenor, never even suspecting that they who had been more powerful then him could possibly win valar.

So if he is talking about ME, then matter is simpler. The five wizards are not then only magicians in ME. I seem to remember it was written that the nine nazguls were once powerful men, sorcerers or kings. Something along those lines was also said of mouth of sauron. So why does Saruman speak of the rods of five wizards? The five have some special meaning.

Maybe like there are five TRUE wizards, there are seven true kingdoms of men. And I mean kingdoms that are or have been during the third age.

There were three kingdoms of men in the north: Cardolan, Rhudaur and Arthedain.

There is one in the south, Gondor. And Umbar I believe is kingdom.

That makes five kingdoms of the men of westernesse.

Belfalas was granted to Galador to rule as a prince of the Dol Amroth. And Rohan to Eorl to rule as a king. Makes two kingdoms more. One of which is of men of Numenor and only Rohan of the northmen.

Easterlings are propably ruled by khans. Historically the mongol title of khan or even "kublai khan / tsingis khan", the great khans was different from that of a king. There was no formal or hereditary rank involved in it. It was simply title given to one who was able to gather power enough to rule. (Not to be forgotten that in this contest the child of the former ruler had an adwantage.) Harad might be ruled by sultans, which is in many ways the same as khan, exept that plotting and obscurities of ancient religiously important birthrights come to play. Men of rhovanion might live in tribal villages, It would seem fitting. Esgaroth is ruled by a mayor. Bard on the other hand is the first "lord" of the dale. The title may be rather like one of an "elected king." It may not be true hereditary kingship.

I think Saruman did not mean: "rods of THE five wizards and crowns of THE seven kings." I think he meant: "(the 5) rods of five wizards and (the 7) crowns of seven kings."


JH
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