The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

Joy · 06-15-2002, 09:10 PM

Thank you all for your comments. This was something that just "hit" me the other night as I was re-reading the Ainulindalë.

Someone mentioned that they saw the Valar/Ainu as angels. That I agree with also. The Catholics have names for many Angels. I have not studied Catholicism to a high degree, but I am familar with a few of it tenents.
*******************************************
Here's the way I explained it to some family members who thought that LotR was demonic.

Take a look at Eph 6:12 - "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

I was comparing the Valar to the Arcangels, the Maias as Principalies, and the Istari or wizards as warring angels. Some of each division Valar - Morgoth/Melkor was corrupted as Lucifer/Satan was. Maias - Sauron, the Dark Lord as Principalies, ie the Prince of Persia and the Prince of Greece in Daniel 10. The Heren Istarion (the order of wizards) as being the powers mentioned in Ephesians 6. Gandalf was the only one of the 5 that stayed true.

What I am about to say may sound a bit off the wall, but here goes! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

The numbers 3, 7 , 9, and 5 appear frequently throughout Tolkien's work. 3, 7, and 9 all represent completeness and perfection. 5 represents God's grace.
There were 9 Valar and 9 in the fellowship. In the Poem of the Ring, 3 rings were given to the Elves, 7 to the Dwarves and 9 to men. Though they were given (all but the Elven Rings) by the dark lord, I believe that to be a corruption of the original plan of Eru. The 3 races were to be the impetus for the destruction/overthrowing of Melkor's discordant song. The discordant song went against the unity of the theme of Eru.

This is where what I say may sound even stranger [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

If you add 3+7+9 = 19. 19 represents faith. 19 is the numbers 1 and 9 which equals 10. 10 reprensents testimony, law and responsibilty. The number 10 is made up of 1 and 0, the number 1 represents unity.

Thanks for listening to the endless wanderings of my mind [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

06-15-2002, 09:10 PM	#14
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Thank you all for your comments. This was something that just "hit" me the other night as I was re-reading the Ainulindalë. Someone mentioned that they saw the Valar/Ainu as angels. That I agree with also. The Catholics have names for many Angels. I have not studied Catholicism to a high degree, but I am familar with a few of it tenents. ******************************************* Here's the way I explained it to some family members who thought that LotR was demonic. Take a look at Eph 6:12 - "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." I was comparing the Valar to the Arcangels, the Maias as Principalies, and the Istari or wizards as warring angels. Some of each division Valar - Morgoth/Melkor was corrupted as Lucifer/Satan was. Maias - Sauron, the Dark Lord as Principalies, ie the Prince of Persia and the Prince of Greece in Daniel 10. The Heren Istarion (the order of wizards) as being the powers mentioned in Ephesians 6. Gandalf was the only one of the 5 that stayed true. What I am about to say may sound a bit off the wall, but here goes! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] The numbers 3, 7 , 9, and 5 appear frequently throughout Tolkien's work. 3, 7, and 9 all represent completeness and perfection. 5 represents God's grace. There were 9 Valar and 9 in the fellowship. In the Poem of the Ring, 3 rings were given to the Elves, 7 to the Dwarves and 9 to men. Though they were given (all but the Elven Rings) by the dark lord, I believe that to be a corruption of the original plan of Eru. The 3 races were to be the impetus for the destruction/overthrowing of Melkor's discordant song. The discordant song went against the unity of the theme of Eru. This is where what I say may sound even stranger [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] If you add 3+7+9 = 19. 19 represents faith. 19 is the numbers 1 and 9 which equals 10. 10 reprensents testimony, law and responsibilty. The number 10 is made up of 1 and 0, the number 1 represents unity. Thanks for listening to the endless wanderings of my mind [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?