[Kuruharan]

How could Dain have stopped him?

I expect that the Royal Guards, or whatever the equivalent of such might happen to have been, would have been more loyal to Dain and the system than to Balin. This is going by the assumption that the guard of the monarch would be the largest (if not the only, which might have been the case) professional military force in the kingdom. They probably would have been able to stop Balin from leaving if Dain ordered them to.

However, it must be admitted that speculating on the nature of the military establishment is really reaching, but I offer a possibility.

But another point is that Balin's followers would perhaps have been unwilling to follow him if Dain had forbidden the expedition.

Balin was an extremely wealthy, noble, respected, highly placed and influential Dwarf. Second [on the lonely mountain] only to Dain's son and extremely close kin I would imagine.

Yes, but alas, not the king. Unless Balin had a deal arranged with the Longbeard's equivalent of the Praetorian Guard, I think that the troops could be relied on to follow the king and prince.

By what right's could Dain have stopped him?

The same right that he can order anybody to do anything. He's the king. The representative of the father of their race.

Jealousy? Fear of being shown up?

Whatever the motivation, Dain could still have legitimately given orders to stop them if he was so inclined.

It does say that Dain gave leave for them togo unwillingly, but by what rights could he have kept Oin, Ori and Balin from doing what they pleased outside of his realm?

I hate to keep harping on this but it is the only answer to be made. Dain was the king. If they were going out into the world and getting themselves into trouble, Dain would still be in some sense responsible for them.

He may have been Lord of the house of Durin, but surely every one in Erebor were not his slaves.

No, but they were subject to his authority. Unless they rebelled, and there is no indication that this was anything like a rebellion. As a matter of fact there is never a mention made of rebellion against their own authorities by dwarves in the texts. It just does not seem to be a dwarf thing.

and congrats on 700 posts.

Thank you. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

but it seems highly plausible that Balin felt he got the short end of the Erebor stick and saw Moria and [erroneously the last Dwarf Ring] as a way to redress that.

I'm afraid that we are just going to have to disagree on that.

Dain was already going to be king of Durin's folk, why should he not leave Erebor to Balin? I think this was the root of Balin's deparure to Moria.

I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean why didn't Dain go to Moria? If that is what you mean then the answer probably is because he did not believe that this enterprise was going to work. Which I believe is the reason why he was against the whole business, not because he was jealous.

[ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]