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Shade of Carn Dûm
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Re: Gollum
Lost interest? Never, I started it. Indeed, replies! Great post, Z. All good points; I realised too late that he was expelled (while looking for Gollum material) and didn't edit. Anyway...I'll go through this bit by bit...
1. What did the Ring have to Corrupt?
It is true that the Ring twists it's bearer into doing evil; however, it only twists the bearer into doing evil if the bearer desires something, if the bearer lusts for something etc. (This we know already) So what was the desire that Gollum had, that was twisted into evil in the first place?
The minute he saw the Ring, he wanted it. At that moment, it was his birthday and he was the average Stoor living on the banks of the Anduin. The feelings for the Ring grew on him, but he did not do any evil until he started killing goblins and fish; and that was only to stay alive. What was his
original motive? What did he intend to do with his 'birthday present?' Was the Ring twisting his desire to repent for killing Deagol? Was the Ring twisting him to do evil?
If, Z, 'he wasn't thinking of revenge at that stage' then what did the Ring have to corrupt? That was a little disjointed, but bear with me.
2. The Three (or Four) sides of Gollum
As we already know, there are three or even four sides of Gollum. Slinker and Stinker, Slinker being slightly twisted but almost repentant and Stinker nasty. Then we have Gollum; the primevil side that wishes only for food and to get away from the Yellow and White Faces. Then, as you pointed out, Smeagol (whom I already referred to) who is the side of Gollum deep down at heart who is still an abiding Stoor who tries to be loyal and only wishes to go back to the previous life; is sorry that it ever killed Deagol. (It perhaps be noted that in TT It is said that Smeagol IS Slinker and Gollum IS Stinker) Look at this quote:
<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> "Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some
interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he
touched Frodo's knee - but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an
old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond his friends and kin, and the fields and streams of his youth, and old starved pitiable little thing. <hr></blockquote>
The Two Towers, Book II, The Stairs of Cirith Ungol (my
italics)
From this we can deduct numerous things.
1. Interior debate: Possibly between the sides of Gollum; one feeling protective and sorry for Frodo, wishing he had not come. Another, not wanting him to bring the Ring into Mordor. Another, wanting to take the Ring, and the last wanting to get rid of both of them forever.
2. Caress: Smeagol, reminiscing? It seems at this point Smeagol won the Interior debate and wished to almost repent at this point. Proves a point I made earlier about the side of Gollum wishing to go back.
3. Gollum was still a hobbit at heart; this is the light shining through.
Now, you may be wondering where all of that is going. But it backs up a few things: Gollum following the Ring. Gollum has let go of the Ring, and lusts now only for revenge over Bilbo, say. To do this, Stinker/Gollum says he has to get the Ring; but the Ring does not want him. Could he have not obeyed the will of Smeagol and gone back to his home, to live in peace? Or was he too wretched at that point to repent? Was he telling himself that everyone hated him, and that he would never be accepted again? Was that why he went with Stinker/Gollum?
To the point on Gollum thinking that he would 'make them pay' etc. Was this just emphasising the point that Gollum's overall motive (as Slinker/Gollum) was to control, to gain power? Was he just biding his time as the primevil Gollum until he could get revenge?
That was extremely disjointed; but if you can follow...replies, Zoe? <img src=wink.gif ALT="
">
PS I'll see if I can comment on the rest of your points later, but I don't want to make the post
too long...
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enep</p>