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Wight
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Re: Gollum
Fear not, this discussion shall not turn into one about nicknames, for I am here to dissect enep's post, and add some more points of my own...
1- Re: What did the Ring have to Corrupt?
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Quote:<hr> It is true that the Ring twists it's bearer into doing evil; however, it only twists the bearer into doing evil if the bearer desires something, if the bearer lusts for something etc.<hr></blockquote>
Yes, and everyone wants something. Sam wants Shire-like peace for the Middle Earth. Gandalf wants to overthrow Sauron. And originally, Gollum just wanted to get away from what he had done in killing Deagol. The Ring corrupted this (IMO) into a desire for 'revenge', although if anything, it was his family who deserved revenge over him.
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Quote:<hr> The minute he saw the Ring, he wanted it ... Was the Ring twisting his desire to repent for killing Deagol? What was the Ring twisting him to do evil for? What did it see in him?<hr></blockquote>
If he knew what it was and what effect it would have over him, would he have wanted it? Perhaps not. But at the time, the Ring wanted him, and saw in him a means of getting away from the river and into the hands of the Dark Lord.
Everyone who sees the Ring wants it, even without using it. Boromir tries to take it from Frodo by force, yet he has never touched it. Although some of this power may only be in the Ring's reputation, it can definitely be said that the Ring has the power to make those who see it want it, or the power it gives. The Ring (or rather, Sauron working through the Ring) wants to corrupt as many as possible, whilst making its way to the Dark Throne.
2- Re:The Three (or Four) sides of Gollum
I agree, there were two, three or four (depending on how you look at it) sides to Gollum. But two of those are the strongest (or one, if you want to combine them to reduce the number of sides): The desire to hide (from what?) and the desire for "revenge". I say that both of these come from the Ring.
Let us, for a moment, say that the Ring is like a drug. (Not an illegal drug, a medical one.) This Ring Drug is inteded to make those who take it become evil and aid the Dark Lord. However, there is a side effect, which is a desire to run away. Unfortunately, this side effect may not help the first aim, but that's the way medicine goes.
The Ring has created in Gollum this urge for "revenge", and is twisting his thoughts and actions so that he starts to help Sauron (whether deep down he wants to or not). In doing so, it has also unintentionally stirred up this urge to hide from the Sun and the Moon, and a hatred of everything, including himself and the Ring.
On the other hand, the repentant side(s) of Gollum are part of the original Smeagol. Because the Ring has grown in its power over him, these side(s) are less obvious, and don't show themselves much, although they do come through occaisionally, such as in the quote you gave.
(In my argument, I'm not saying the Ring could control every single aspect of Gollum, just that his own motives (to get repentance) have been 'smothered' by the Ring.)
3- The Nine
The Ringwraiths have never possesed the One Ring (that I know of). Yet, with only the nine rings for mortal men, Sauron has created a group of slaves, who lack their own will in such matters. If this can be done with a group of 'subordinate' rings, what about the one Ring? Surely it has a more powerful effect on its bearers?
4- One Ring to Rule Them All
The One Ring is the Ruling Ring. It has great power. This power most certainly extends to affecting the will of its bearer. Although, as a Hobbit, Gollum must be quite strong-willed, could he really resist the One?
5- Miscellaneous Quotes
In no particular order:
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Quote:<hr> 'He hated it and loved it, as he hated and loved himself. He could not get rid of it. He had no will left in the matter.'<hr></blockquote>
Fairly self explanatory.
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Quote:<hr> '...But I am afraid there is no possible doubt: he had made his slow, sneaking way, step by step, mile by mile, south, down at last to the land of Mordor.'<hr></blockquote>
If he had his own will (and not some 'pseudo-will' imposed by Sauron), why did he go to Mordor? What did he think he would find there?
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Quote:<hr> '...And he is bound up in the fate of the Ring.'<hr></blockquote>
What, because in his own free will he wants to be? :P
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Quote:<hr> '...Why did you let me keep it? Why didn't you make me throw it away, or, or destroy it?'
'Let you? Make you?' said the wizard. 'Haven't you been listening to all that I have said? You are not thinking of what you are saying. But as for throwing it away, that was obviously wrong. These Rings have a way of being found ... for this is the One, and he [Sauron] is exerting all his power to find it or draw it to himself.'<hr></blockquote>
The Ring obeys its maker, and its bearer has no say in the matter. In the case of Gollum the will of the Maker all but took over the will of the bearer.
Apologies again for the huge post.
I wonder if anyone else is reading this, or if it's just E, TLW and me? <img src=wink.gif ALT="
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