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Shade of Carn Dûm
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The Ring and Gollum
It may be that it is just us. No doubt, people are reading this thread, but fewer are replying. <img src=rolleyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> At the moment I am compiling a document of all the Gollum quotes I can find, but in the midst of that I have managed to find time to re-dissect your post and criticise the medical industry <img src=biggrin.gif ALT="
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1. Regarding the Ring, Gollum and His Desires
Your first point regarding the Ring corrupting Gollum is true; and my opinion was as yours, that it corrupted his wish for repentance and his sorrow into a hatred of his past and a growing desire for revenge. Then we agree on one thing <img src=smile.gif ALT="
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However, regarding 'and everyone wants something' - I hate to bring it up, but Tom Bombadil does not. The Ring only has power over those that want something, that we also agree on. Bombadil was not affected as he did not desire anything (this has already been discussed - I'll leave it here) Using your Misc. quote, Z:
<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> "He hated it and loved it, as he hated and lovesd himself. He could not get rid of it. He had
no will left in the matter."<hr></blockquote>
Does this mean that it had eaten away all of his desires, all of his motives? If so, my question is ended. However, I do not think this was the case.
<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> "...and after that Gollum, and it had devoured him."<hr></blockquote>
Another quote to back up the statement previously, that Gollum was nothing but a useless slave, but not yet a wraith (he still had a physical form and a mind of his own.)
From this we conclude:
<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> "It could make no further use of him: (Gollum) he was too small and mean; and as long as it stayed with him he would never leave his dep pool again."<hr></blockquote>
That the Ring saw that Gollum was not as evil as it first thought (looking from the perspective that the Ring is it's own, but more on that later) and therefore it left him, after devouring him to the point where even with his own will his desire for revenge, lust for power, wish for repentance and acceptance, and hatred of absolutely everything (which I gather we also agree on) led him towards the Ring, despite it shunning him. That's one question answered.
As to Gollum going towards Mordor - The Ring is an object in itself. As an object, it is essentially the embodiment of the Will of Sauron, and he put a lot of his power into it. Hence, I do not think that you are true in saying the Ring was "Sauron working through the Ring" But rather itself, with a mind, a voice etc. that was
bound to Sauron.
<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> "...when it's master was awake once omre, and sending out his dark thought from Mirkwood, it abandoned Gollum."<hr></blockquote>
This raises a separate issue...'dark thought' could perhaps refer to a sort of 'call for the Ring' by Sauron.
I'm going off topic. Gollum knows (IMO) that Sauron is the Ring's master, and thinks that perhaps the Ring has made it's way towards Mordor, dirty Baggins took it there. That and a 'dark thought' from Sauron - Gollum may have been summoned. He therefore goes to Mordor, and to answer your question - He thought he would find the Ring there.
2. Regarding the Sides of Gollum and the Wierd, Whacked-Out Ring Drug
I love the analogy: Ring - A Medical Drug, Z. It does actually make things a lot clearer...
Re: Sides of Gollum. There were definitely the two sides that you mentioned, Z: The desire to hide, and the desire for revenge - which I would classify as the Primevil Gollum and Stinker sides of the story; but I shall leave Gollum-as-a-schizo out this time. These most definitely came from the Ring; although the desire to hide could be affected by many things. His hatred of the world, and the Two Faces; his hatred of his past; his hatred of himself; escape from Sauron; escape from the Ringwraiths, and his desire to be away from it all and to forget the Ring, wishing he had never found it and never murdered Deagol (The Smeagol/Good side.)
I agree that the Ring, as a 'Drug' was supposed to bend the bearer's will towards Mordor, towards Sauron, to become a servant. (Another possibly reason as to Gollum's arrival in Mordor) I also heartily agree with your theory of The Ring unintentinally awaking fears/hatred of the Faces and just about everything, and the Drug coming into action by bending him towards Sauron. Indeed, the foundations of the desire for revenge were his repentance/sorrow issues already discussed, and these were bought unto by the Ring and fed until they grew into a wrath.
I agree with your point about the repentant/Smeagol side being 'smothered;' and also with the argument that it has 'smothered' his motives for repentance. As it is an evil work and works evil (whoa) it saw in him that he could not forever be a repentant Stoor citizen; and it shunned those motives, or depending on what way you look at it, worked on them; until he (almost) forgot about everything that had happened, and was 'blinded' by lusts for revenge, hatred etc.
3. Regarding the Ringwraiths
Very good point. However: the 'subordinate' rings were given to Men as Men have a lesser will than even that of Hobbits (or Stoors, for that matter) and were easier to corrupt (this we know from many different sources) therefore they (within a short period of time) had little or no will (it had been eaten/corrupted by the Nine, just as the One did to Gollum (see above)) and were drawn to Mordor a lot faster than Gollum had, or any other servant of Sauron.
Another note on this: After Sauron was cast into the sea during the Downfall of Numenor, the Ringwraiths 'passed into shadows' as said in App. B. However, soon after in T.A. The Witch-King founded Angmar. He then made war to Arthedain for some time - this showed that he still had some of his
own evil will within him, perhaps because he had been evil before gaining one of the Nine, and this evil was simply 'enhanced' by the One.
4. Regarding the One Ring and Resistance
Indeed, you are correct. Resistance against the One Ring was futile, unless one could get rid of it (as did Bilbo) relatively quickly, and the Ring had not had enough time to 'eat away' at the will of the bearer. Gollum could not resist, but he was stronger than the Nine, and at least kept his physical form and was never truly corrupted to the point where he was on a whim. In short, my answer is no, Gollum could not resist it.
I agree on the final Misc. point; the Master did (basically) take over Gollum.
Double apologies for what I think is an even bigger post; but I hope that you will find something to critique me on <img src=wink.gif ALT="
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-
enep</p>
Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000041>enep</A> at: 2/10/01 4:50:18 am