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**lindil** · 03-03-2003, 09:29 PM

The Silmarillion reports that after Hurin boldly [indeed proudly] defied Morgoth to his face, Morgoth set the infamous curse upon his family. In addition he told Hurin that he would see and know everything that he [Morgoth knew]. So in the case of Glaurung, whose evil will was in some sense an extension of Morgoth's. Morgoth and thus Hurin knew is some fashion at least what passed between Turin and the Dragon.

We do not know the limitations of perception of a Vala, but it is said that morgoth had some part in all of the gifts of each of the other Valar. So his hearing would be a lesser versions of Manwe, who could hear things from all over the world, Varda could see over all the world, and Ulmo sensed anything that came into contact with the streams and rivers of the world, etc,. So we are talking about subtle spiritual perceptions in some cases, and of perception through his servants in others.

Hope that helps a bit.

And actually I do not think Hurin ever went to Amon Rudh [though Turin's band had a lair there] Hurin was first released back to his former domain of Hithlum, then the encircling Mountains were he inadvertantly tips of Morgoth to Turgon's general locale, then Brethil [not in the Silm, but in War of the Jewels], and finally Doriath, before ending his life at the sea.

[ March 03, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

03-03-2003, 09:29 PM	#2
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	The Silmarillion reports that after Hurin boldly [indeed proudly] defied Morgoth to his face, Morgoth set the infamous curse upon his family. In addition he told Hurin that he would see and know everything that he [Morgoth knew]. So in the case of Glaurung, whose evil will was in some sense an extension of Morgoth's. Morgoth and thus Hurin knew is some fashion at least what passed between Turin and the Dragon. We do not know the limitations of perception of a Vala, but it is said that morgoth had some part in all of the gifts of each of the other Valar. So his hearing would be a lesser versions of Manwe, who could hear things from all over the world, Varda could see over all the world, and Ulmo sensed anything that came into contact with the streams and rivers of the world, etc,. So we are talking about subtle spiritual perceptions in some cases, and of perception through his servants in others. Hope that helps a bit. And actually I do not think Hurin ever went to Amon Rudh [though Turin's band had a lair there] Hurin was first released back to his former domain of Hithlum, then the encircling Mountains were he inadvertantly tips of Morgoth to Turgon's general locale, then Brethil [not in the Silm, but in War of the Jewels], and finally Doriath, before ending his life at the sea. [ March 03, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.