The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - In the Shadow of the Star: Discussion Thread (Part 1)

mark12_30 · 03-12-2003, 03:22 PM

Okay (that was fast, said Child) here's what's bugging me. It all goes back to the question of-- who's dreaming? And who's awake?

When the guy who dreams that he is Elendil, wakes up as Elendil in Numenor, then in England he's asleep. His neighbors (in Numenor) would, however, be awake and "real" people walking around in the daylight, EXCEPTING Elendil's son Herendil, who, while talking to his father in Numenor, is also lying asleep in England. (What were there names? Harry and John, for the sake of argument.) So-- Elendil /Herendil awake in Numenor, but Harry and John (sic) lying aleep and dreaming in England.

So.

I'm assuming that Frodo and Bilbo are lying asleep in the West, Cami, Rose, Gamba & boys are lying asleep in the Third Age, Maura, Ban, Zira, Abar, Lindo, & Snowhobbits are lying asleep on Tol Fuin. We all have a happy three-month-long dream-reunion, weddings, births, adventures. So far so good.

Now-- who's awake?

Pio's twins do actually get born, so she's awake. Right? Or is she? Mith travelled all the way there and is there when the twins are born so he's awake. Right? Bird flew all the way there, so she's awake. I guess.

Is The Shire awake? Sam, Merry, Pippin?

You see where I'm going? Or, how lost I am?

Okay. So according to your argument, then only the ones that were dreaming-- the travellers less Mith, Pio, Bird-- are potentially confused and the rest are not? And if the dreamers all arrive in the Shire with memories intact-- more or less-- then how much do Zira, Ban, Lindo & boys remember-- and Gamba and Rose-- when they wake up?

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

03-12-2003, 03:22 PM	#348
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Okay (that was fast, said Child) here's what's bugging me. It all goes back to the question of-- who's dreaming? And who's awake? When the guy who dreams that he is Elendil, wakes up as Elendil in Numenor, then in England he's asleep. His neighbors (in Numenor) would, however, be awake and "real" people walking around in the daylight, EXCEPTING Elendil's son Herendil, who, while talking to his father in Numenor, is also lying asleep in England. (What were there names? Harry and John, for the sake of argument.) So-- Elendil /Herendil awake in Numenor, but Harry and John (sic) lying aleep and dreaming in England. So. I'm assuming that Frodo and Bilbo are lying asleep in the West, Cami, Rose, Gamba & boys are lying asleep in the Third Age, Maura, Ban, Zira, Abar, Lindo, & Snowhobbits are lying asleep on Tol Fuin. We all have a happy three-month-long dream-reunion, weddings, births, adventures. So far so good. Now-- who's awake? Pio's twins do actually get born, so she's awake. Right? Or is she? Mith travelled all the way there and is there when the twins are born so he's awake. Right? Bird flew all the way there, so she's awake. I guess. Is The Shire awake? Sam, Merry, Pippin? You see where I'm going? Or, how lost I am? Okay. So according to your argument, then only the ones that were dreaming-- the travellers less Mith, Pio, Bird-- are potentially confused and the rest are not? And if the dreamers all arrive in the Shire with memories intact-- more or less-- then how much do Zira, Ban, Lindo & boys remember-- and Gamba and Rose-- when they wake up? [ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ] __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.