Yes, Kalimac, I think you've just about got our answer. Can't say as I fully agree with Birland though. Orcs didn't really care what people thought of them, they didn't have much in the way of Pride.
In response to Mar: I'm not saying that there was justifiable homicide in ME. But the characters that lived there seemed to lay into orcs with unusual venom, whenever they could.
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Tolkien implies pretty clearly in the Silm that the orcs are elves of the Avari who were captured by Morgoth.
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Can you relay this pretty clear implication from the silm to me, do you think? I'm not quite sure that it exists. You say that orcs
are elves of the Avari. I don't think they were; even tormented and broken elves would never metamorphise into orcs. I still hold to my Aule theory. Not wishing to chide of course. :P
[ May 18, 2002: Message edited by: Gwaihir the Windlord ]