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**lindil** · 01-12-2001, 09:47 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 190</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
fear and hroar

I am w/ Mithadan and Durelen on the idea that werewolves were spirits that temporarily [or for a longer term ,by way of Sauron's spells] were housed in the bodies that by design were made to resemble wolves , and when the bodies were killed [just as the Nine at the ford or Sauron at the Downfall or Sauruman at sharkey's end] since they were living up to that point by magic if you will when the vehicle for it was destroyed the spirit fled and , unlike the death of a naturally occuring im/mortal or creature ,the body disappears when the spirit [the primary link or ground in the magic] is gone. sorry for the run on sentence , hope I got my convoluted point across though.

as for the Arrows , I will split the difference. As the elf in lorien [who I have already had to qoute once today] said re: their cloaks and rope [paraphrased] " we put the love of all things we hold dear in all that we make" This is a central component of Elven 'magic' . It proceeds from their being . That is why the food the Hobbits eat in the Woody End tastes better than theirs and why when Elves sing or tell stories , you are transported into the story to a degree , depending on the depth of being and skill of theartist.

So I will assume they were elven arrows from Thranduils realm. Legolas would have the pick of the best as the king's son, and since all elves , I hold ,by threir nature put their being [read magic by some] into all thay did any arrow [or art or craft ] made by an elf would be magical ,to a greater or lesser degree.
I hold in the case of the Mirkwood elves that it was lesser magic compared to Lorien or Rivendell or anything of Noldorin or Eolin or even Dwarven[at the height of their skill] and even possibly Numenorean make , simply becuse they had a lesser lineage and as we see in the hobbit could be rather petty and irresponsible [although I will concede they were the victims of a child's story].

But the depth of magic in the arrows is immaterial, I think anything material could kill the material 'bodies' of the 'wolves' witness Grima's knife, or Eowyn's sword [although if I read it aright it was Merry's Numenorean sword that 'broke the spell that held the undead flesh together' ] finished the job.

a final note [which may be of some interest to Raw], what makes the Elves, Dwarves,Ents and [closer to home] the Dunedain [and much of JRRT's writing] so darn cool is that we see glimpse's of these beings putting their entire being into their art, handicrafts , food, you name it these races prided themselves on Quality [ Pirsig from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainence should have read tolkien closer]. this should be [and is obviously to most of us] an incredible inspiration to us to emulate them. NOT in learning Golden Dawn style or such 'Magic' but in learning how to put love, care and wisdom into every aspect of our life : food , singing and writing standing and walking .
That is our inheritance from the Valar and Eldar and Dunedain , even though they never existed .

{That is why the Silmarills were so precious to Feanor [although to his credit He accounted his Father above all]
he had created the ultimate work of art on par nearly w/ some of the grand creations of the Valar, he had poured his being into them [ and the Valar had failed to maintain high enough security on their parolee ] so he was enraged. Great art or skills however do not equal great wisdom and mastering yourself is a much igher art than any external skill }.

sorry I got a little carried away there <img src=smile.gif ALT="

">

lindil

"What then was this hope , if you know ?" Finrod asked "They say" answered Andreth :" they say that the One will himself enter into Arda , and heal Men and all the Marring from the begining to the end." Lindil is often found on posting on the 'New Revised Standard' Silmarillion at the Barrowdowns discussion board. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 1/12/01 11:09:55 am

01-12-2001, 09:47 AM	#22
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 190</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> fear and hroar I am w/ Mithadan and Durelen on the idea that werewolves were spirits that temporarily [or for a longer term ,by way of Sauron's spells] were housed in the bodies that by design were made to resemble wolves , and when the bodies were killed [just as the Nine at the ford or Sauron at the Downfall or Sauruman at sharkey's end] since they were living up to that point by magic if you will when the vehicle for it was destroyed the spirit fled and , unlike the death of a naturally occuring im/mortal or creature ,the body disappears when the spirit [the primary link or ground in the magic] is gone. sorry for the run on sentence , hope I got my convoluted point across though. as for the Arrows , I will split the difference. As the elf in lorien [who I have already had to qoute once today] said re: their cloaks and rope [paraphrased] " we put the love of all things we hold dear in all that we make" This is a central component of Elven 'magic' . It proceeds from their being . That is why the food the Hobbits eat in the Woody End tastes better than theirs and why when Elves sing or tell stories , you are transported into the story to a degree , depending on the depth of being and skill of theartist. So I will assume they were elven arrows from Thranduils realm. Legolas would have the pick of the best as the king's son, and since all elves , I hold ,by threir nature put their being [read magic by some] into all thay did any arrow [or art or craft ] made by an elf would be magical ,to a greater or lesser degree. I hold in the case of the Mirkwood elves that it was lesser magic compared to Lorien or Rivendell or anything of Noldorin or Eolin or even Dwarven[at the height of their skill] and even possibly Numenorean make , simply becuse they had a lesser lineage and as we see in the hobbit could be rather petty and irresponsible [although I will concede they were the victims of a child's story]. But the depth of magic in the arrows is immaterial, I think anything material could kill the material 'bodies' of the 'wolves' witness Grima's knife, or Eowyn's sword [although if I read it aright it was Merry's Numenorean sword that 'broke the spell that held the undead flesh together' ] finished the job. a final note [which may be of some interest to Raw], what makes the Elves, Dwarves,Ents and [closer to home] the Dunedain [and much of JRRT's writing] so darn cool is that we see glimpse's of these beings putting their entire being into their art, handicrafts , food, you name it these races prided themselves on Quality [ Pirsig from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainence should have read tolkien closer]. this should be [and is obviously to most of us] an incredible inspiration to us to emulate them. NOT in learning Golden Dawn style or such 'Magic' but in learning how to put love, care and wisdom into every aspect of our life : food , singing and writing standing and walking . That is our inheritance from the Valar and Eldar and Dunedain , even though they never existed . {That is why the Silmarills were so precious to Feanor [although to his credit He accounted his Father above all] he had created the ultimate work of art on par nearly w/ some of the grand creations of the Valar, he had poured his being into them [ and the Valar had failed to maintain high enough security on their parolee ] so he was enraged. Great art or skills however do not equal great wisdom and mastering yourself is a much igher art than any external skill }. sorry I got a little carried away there <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> lindil "What then was this hope , if you know ?" Finrod asked "They say" answered Andreth :" they say that the One will himself enter into Arda , and heal Men and all the Marring from the begining to the end." Lindil is often found on posting on the 'New Revised Standard' Silmarillion at the Barrowdowns discussion board. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 1/12/01 11:09:55 am __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.