The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Why was Vilya supposed to be the greatest elf ring?

Man-of-the-Wold · 03-10-2003, 11:36 PM

Boy, this topic sure diverged quickly. Nothing is more treacherous than a tangential Balrog debate.

But the point there about Nenya is not without merit. Nevertheless, whatever the general and relative powers of The Three, Nenya may have only indirectly contributed to Lothlorien's defense against Moria and Dol Guldor. Galadriel and Celeborn, no doubt, had other powers with which to bolster the valour and strength of the Galathrim.

Returning to the topic: Vilya being the greatest of The Three, remember first that it was given originally to Gil-Galad, last of the Eldar Kings in Middle-Earth.

Also, it is the Ring of the Sky, and in a sense, The Three -- Vilya, Nenya and Narya --represent the same gradation of power as personified by Manwe (Lord of the Airs), Ulmo (Lord of Waters) and Aule (Lord of ..., well, he works a lot with Fire).

With Elrond, one never gets a strong impression of his actively using it, the way that Galadriel evidently does by way of Lothlorien's timeless/unstained nature, the majesty of Caras Galadhon, and of course, The Mirror, as well as some contribution to her reported ability to withstand any adversary less than Sauron himself.

The same might have been true of Imladris and Elrond; though, by all accounts it was not seriously attacked during the War of the Rings, at least not militarily, although that might have been different but for what transpired during Bilbo's adventure.

Nevertheless, in terms of Rivendell's defense and perservation as the last realm of High Elves in Middle-Earth (assuming Lindon is mostly Grey/Green-Elves), one has not only the flash flood that defeated the Nazgul (which may have arisen through other powers of Elrond apart from Vilya), but we also can appreciate the long period during which Imladris kept the forces of Angmar at bay, and then helped see to their defeat. Nothwithstanding Glorfindel and other greats residing in Rivendell, Elrond and possibly Vilya played a role.

The contrast between Galadriel/Nenya and Elrond/Vilya is in some ways a reflection of their characters. Within her domain Galadriel is more open and apparent, at least with Frodo. Rivendell is not so cut-off from the rest of the world, and Frodo does not see Vilya, perhaps because Elrond must be generally more guarded with it, given that many folks come and go through the Last Homely House. (Frodo also doesn't see Narya with Gandalf, though that might be attributed to personal familiarity); also, it was likely Elrond who had to briefly handle the Ring in placing it on the chain about Frodo's neck. Nonetheless, Elrond is one of the most ubiquitous persons in the Books, but also one on the most enigmatic.

I think if one looks closely one can see the power of Vilya at work through Elrond, apart from the fact that Imladris remains completely unassailable by Angmar, the Black Riders and other threats during the Third Age, in a way that makes its being the greatest of The Three credible.

First, what are Vilya's powers. I'd sum them up as: Healing, Understanding, Peace and Wisdom.

Some examples of where these non-military powers were at work, I would cite:

1. Succour and sustainment of the Line of Isildur in the North, not least, Aragorn's upbringing and protection of the heirlooms of Arnor.
2. The guideance that he gives to Thorin & Co. in deciphering the map in way that escapes both Thorin and Gandalf.
3. His foresight in defining the terms of Arwen and Aragorn's betrothel.
4. The timely assembly of important players in Rivendell; might Boromir's dream-riddle have been not entirely a surprise for Elrond.
5. Frodo's rescue from the trans-lethal effect of a Morgul weapon.
6. The healing, restfulness, strengthening, and enlightenment visited on people staying in Imladris, not least Bilbo after he had stopped bearing The Ring.
7. His uncanny advice to Aragorn in recalling Malbeth the Seer, and his point to Frodo about friends unlooked-for; remember Faramir experienced the dream-riddle more than Boromir, and it was an odd fate that informed him of his brother's demise by protecting his brother's funeral boat in a fair form that showed a dignified end.
8. An almost Manwe-like view and wisdom about events in the world, perhaps not without some connection to the Eagles that save Bilbo, Gandalf and last Frodo/Sam, but also possibly some part as an intermediary assisting the forces by which Frodo was meant to have The Ring.

03-10-2003, 11:36 PM	#7
Man-of-the-Wold Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin Posts: 239	Boy, this topic sure diverged quickly. Nothing is more treacherous than a tangential Balrog debate. But the point there about Nenya is not without merit. Nevertheless, whatever the general and relative powers of The Three, Nenya may have only indirectly contributed to Lothlorien's defense against Moria and Dol Guldor. Galadriel and Celeborn, no doubt, had other powers with which to bolster the valour and strength of the Galathrim. Returning to the topic: Vilya being the greatest of The Three, remember first that it was given originally to Gil-Galad, last of the Eldar Kings in Middle-Earth. Also, it is the Ring of the Sky, and in a sense, The Three -- Vilya, Nenya and Narya --represent the same gradation of power as personified by Manwe (Lord of the Airs), Ulmo (Lord of Waters) and Aule (Lord of ..., well, he works a lot with Fire). With Elrond, one never gets a strong impression of his actively using it, the way that Galadriel evidently does by way of Lothlorien's timeless/unstained nature, the majesty of Caras Galadhon, and of course, The Mirror, as well as some contribution to her reported ability to withstand any adversary less than Sauron himself. The same might have been true of Imladris and Elrond; though, by all accounts it was not seriously attacked during the War of the Rings, at least not militarily, although that might have been different but for what transpired during Bilbo's adventure. Nevertheless, in terms of Rivendell's defense and perservation as the last realm of High Elves in Middle-Earth (assuming Lindon is mostly Grey/Green-Elves), one has not only the flash flood that defeated the Nazgul (which may have arisen through other powers of Elrond apart from Vilya), but we also can appreciate the long period during which Imladris kept the forces of Angmar at bay, and then helped see to their defeat. Nothwithstanding Glorfindel and other greats residing in Rivendell, Elrond and possibly Vilya played a role. The contrast between Galadriel/Nenya and Elrond/Vilya is in some ways a reflection of their characters. Within her domain Galadriel is more open and apparent, at least with Frodo. Rivendell is not so cut-off from the rest of the world, and Frodo does not see Vilya, perhaps because Elrond must be generally more guarded with it, given that many folks come and go through the Last Homely House. (Frodo also doesn't see Narya with Gandalf, though that might be attributed to personal familiarity); also, it was likely Elrond who had to briefly handle the Ring in placing it on the chain about Frodo's neck. Nonetheless, Elrond is one of the most ubiquitous persons in the Books, but also one on the most enigmatic. I think if one looks closely one can see the power of Vilya at work through Elrond, apart from the fact that Imladris remains completely unassailable by Angmar, the Black Riders and other threats during the Third Age, in a way that makes its being the greatest of The Three credible. First, what are Vilya's powers. I'd sum them up as: Healing, Understanding, Peace and Wisdom. Some examples of where these non-military powers were at work, I would cite: 1. Succour and sustainment of the Line of Isildur in the North, not least, Aragorn's upbringing and protection of the heirlooms of Arnor. 2. The guideance that he gives to Thorin & Co. in deciphering the map in way that escapes both Thorin and Gandalf. 3. His foresight in defining the terms of Arwen and Aragorn's betrothel. 4. The timely assembly of important players in Rivendell; might Boromir's dream-riddle have been not entirely a surprise for Elrond. 5. Frodo's rescue from the trans-lethal effect of a Morgul weapon. 6. The healing, restfulness, strengthening, and enlightenment visited on people staying in Imladris, not least Bilbo after he had stopped bearing The Ring. 7. His uncanny advice to Aragorn in recalling Malbeth the Seer, and his point to Frodo about friends unlooked-for; remember Faramir experienced the dream-riddle more than Boromir, and it was an odd fate that informed him of his brother's demise by protecting his brother's funeral boat in a fair form that showed a dignified end. 8. An almost Manwe-like view and wisdom about events in the world, perhaps not without some connection to the Eagles that save Bilbo, Gandalf and last Frodo/Sam, but also possibly some part as an intermediary assisting the forces by which Frodo was meant to have The Ring. __________________ The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.