[HerenIstarion]

I won't bite at Mr. Brins poor historical perception, still more Bill Ferny was far more efficient than I can dream of, but I would not mind a bit of biting in other parts of this article

Of course there is much more to this work than mere fantasy escapism

and

Nonetheless, I deem Tolkien's trilogy to be one of the finest works of literary universe-building ever, with a lovingly textured internal consistency

not so bad for a start, really, many a thanks for that, but than:

Let me avow upfront that I share the more recent, upstart belief in universities, democratic accountability, science and human improvability -- one that questions the fated persistence of "eternal" stupidities...

...Anyway, people with my view had better be right. Because if humanity is as obstinate as the cynics and Romantics believe, we shall surely go extinct quite soon.

We shall, but not because of reasons author gives. And note the notion - "better be right" not because it is true, but because it happens to conform to Mr. Brin's and all "progressive" people's liking, who try to persuade us we will "extinct soon" if we won't be "progressive". Now is not it the same propaganda and persuasion of "lower" classes to "let the big bullies stay on top" as he accuses "bards and Kings" of committing?

Above all, any "golden age" lies in our future. It has to. Or what are we striving for?

Why? In choice between Future and Past, I choose Present (and Tolkien, as I beleive, chose the same, see below) But even if only future and past were given to make a choice between, I would vote for the Past. If there is anything Golden in the Future as Mr. Brin describes it, it is haze at best, not Era with capita e. Mr. Brin now argues about Tolkien being placing all his treasures in the past. I can understand why, but have a nasty suspicion Mr. Brin is either blind or pretends not to notice the obvious: All so called (by Mr.Brin) romantic heroes work in present, not crushing on past or future overmuch, though with an eye on good things in the past and hope to improve the future. (cf. Gandalf's words in the Last Debate - "Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule" - the most sound statement for life philosophy I ever heard of)

Mr. Brin also votes for the rights for goblins (hum...)(if he were to appear, I would have been glad to advise him to read this at least, to know the basics and judge Tolkien and orkish fate)

Were any orcs or "dark men" offered coalition positions in King Aragorn's cabinet, at the end of the War of the Ring? Was Mordor given a benign Marshall Plan?

"Well, they are just orcs" - quote with a sarcasm in it. But by this sarcasm Mr. Bring achives nothing but to advertise his ignorance in the thing he's criticizing -orcs indeed are just orcs, more or less equivalent of automata. I should advise him to read with more care. Dunlendings are taken captive and not killed altogether, and men from Khand which surrender are given freedom by Aragorn, but yes, orcs are just orcs.

But by any metric, these dark warning tales have been far more useful than all those sword and sorcery flicks that try to teach us about good and evil by portraying the former as always pretty and the latter, always, with red, glowing eyes

now this is simply (or intentionally?) unjust. As well as the following:

an ideal society ought to be ruled by secretive-mystical elites, unaccountable and self-chosen based on inherent qualities of blood. The only good knowledge is old knowledge.

On the contrary, the human era comes in ME. It may be sad form an elf's point of view, but Tolkien's motto is seen trough nevertheless (not for Mr. Brin. though). To give Tolkien's own words: "things might have been different, but they could not have been better"

Allied propagandists did not have to make up any of it.

But things were different in kingdoms of old, where one official party line was promulgated and alternative sources of information got routinely squelched. And that's in every kingdom, mind you. Go ahead, name one where it didn't happen. (Note how the Norman propagandists went to work on poor old King Harold, even as his body was cooling after the Battle of Hastings.)

True yes, but things are the same in modern republics of present, and even worse, official lines are promulgated with more subtlety, (note how western propagandists work on every one not conforming to their ideals) Only "happy progressivists" of Mr Brin's kind fail to notice those, since they are preoccupied with the sweet dreams of happy future. He accuses Tolkien of "elitarianism" (excuse coining a word for it), but future as Mr. Brin pictures it is also elite club, the thing only "progressive" chaps are supposed to get into. And if we recall the quote by Gandalf given above, it's Tolkien who has sound picture of it, not Mr. Brin, for future is the thing everybody naturally gets into without much fussing about it.

So how do we know that Sauron really did have red glowing eyes?

Isn't some of that over-the-top description just the sort of thing that royal families used to promote, casting exaggerated aspersions on their vanquished foes and despoiling their monuments, reinforcing their own divine right to rule?

Than how do we know Saddam Husein is really so bad, and the real cause of the fuss is not the petrol to be found in Iraq? How do we know Taliban was worse than current goverment of Afganistan? Isn't some of that over-the-top description just the sort of thing that modern 'democratic' goverments use to describe their enemies?

Mr. Brin fails to see that problem is in the man, not the system, and any system after some time will have bullies on top, be it King, or Parliament or whatever...

Sauron's army was the one that included every species and race on Middle Earth, including all the despised colors of humanity, and all the lower classes.

So what? The statement sounds like if the mere fact of belonging to "despised colours of humanity" makes one better than those on the other side. Now let me ask him - is not it the self-same racism (though some strange pevertion of it) of which he accuses Tolkien?

... Sauron...vanquished but still revered by the innumerable poor and oppressed who sit in their squalid huts, wary of the royal secret police with their magical spy-eyes, yet continuing to whisper stories, secretly dreaming and hoping that someday he will return ... bringing more rings

Mr. Bring accused vassals (i.e. mortal characters of LoTR) of kowtowing to their Lords (i.e immortal elves), but look at the contradiction in terms he omitts here - Sauron, who would all be slaves, not merely 'kowtowing vassals', claiming to be the God, is the romantic hero of his!
Or whence comes this hierarchy? why lords, who vassals? Did he actually ever read the books?

[quoote] you are heirs of the world's first true civilization, arising out of the first true revolution. Take some pride in it. [/quote]

emphasis mine. That's what the whole thing is about. Proud Brin can not stand modest Tolkien.

That's what it is, begging your pardon, Sir, if you follow my meaning...

[ December 18, 2002: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]

[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]