[obloquy]

If things had been different, things would have been different.

How do you know the Valar would not have made war on Morgoth sooner if the Noldor had remained faithful? The Noldor were bad to the Valar and to the faithful Quendi of Valinor. Why should they care that Morgoth's armies and the armies of the Noldor were killing each other off?

Sometimes, more reserved, thoughtful, spiritual, and other typical Vanyar adjectives are the correct approach.

Who says that's all the Vanyar were capable of?

But sometimes, an inventive, ambitious, hasty, or warlike approach is the most beneficial, depending on the situation.

What exactly did the Noldor's pursuit of Morgoth accomplish? They failed utterly in trying to overthrow him. Progress was only made when the Valar took action.

they and the Valar should've got up and done something about Morgoth the instant he murdered Finwe and killed the trees.

You forget that Melkor was the highest being under Eru, brother of Manwë. He was answerable only to Eru himself, or to Manwë under Eru's direct orders. He wasn't just some misbehaving child, he was the mightiest being in creation, and his rights came directly from the Creator, and could only be taken away by Him. If Eru had meant Melkor's rights to be taken away as soon as he began to cause trouble, he would have dealt with him as soon as he began to disrupt the Music.

Because they and the Valar waited and delayed, Morgoth had the time to multiply his orcs, create dragons, and devise other evils that would kill good people for ages to come, so in that situation their lack of action was not the correct choice.

Melkor could not be contained by all the Valar combined in his beginning. It was only after he had expended himself in the endeavors you mention that he could be dealt with. He eventually became incarnate, and only then was it possible to execute him without apocalyptic consequences, if at all.

Let's say the Noldor wouldn't have gone back to ME. Then what? Beleriand gets sacked, the havens get ravaged, men never come into contact with them and therefore don't reach their peak, and Morgoth takes over the world.

No, see, when you adjust one thing, everything changes. How can you say Morgoth would've been content in Beleriand without the Noldor being there? He may have set up camp in some remote corner of Aman like Ungoliantë had, and he would be threatening innocent people, not rebellious, murderous ones.

People always seem to forget that Feanor's reaction to Morgoth was the correct one.

No, it's not that people forget, it's that not everyone agrees with you.

The Noldor set out to take down Morgoth, and if the Valar, the Vanyar, and the Teleri would've just gone with them from the beginning, not only would they have won

Debatable.

but Feanor wouldn't have been forced to steal the ships, which means the kinslaying wouldn't have happenned.

The devil made him do it?

In this instance, the seemingly irrational Noldor had the right idea.

Nope. As I asked above, What did they accomplish? Morgoth was too powerful for them to overcome, and being hasty cost many of them their lives.

Peace and serenity are great, but they're not always the right answer, especially when dealing with evil.

Why not? As far as the Vanyar were concerned, Morgoth was eventually taken down, and they didn't even have to be constantly making war on him. The same would've been true of the Noldor if they had been faithful. Eventually it would've been time for the Valar to take out Morgoth anyway. Probably sooner than it did happen, actually, since, as I mentioned above, Morgoth would have been making war on people who had not turned their backs on the Valar.

Action on the part of the Valar was the only hope for defeating Morgoth. The Noldor accomplished nothing, and they may even have delayed the Valar's decision. Besides the fact that only the Valar could do it, Fëanor was overstepping his station in Arda by seeking revenge on Melkor. It was not his place to punish Melkor. The Noldor taking matters into their own hands was wrong.

[ March 03, 2003: Message edited by: obloquy ]