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Old 03-05-2003, 01:38 AM   #42
lindil
Seeker of the Straight Path
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal
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Sting

"And, if my assumption concerning Melkor being weakened is not correct then, as lord of dor-lomin asks, why did they not take action against Melkor immediately?"

The Doom of Mandos may well have been straight from Eru. If so, the Valar were under higher orders to wait until the Noldor's rebellion had gone full circle [and they finally end up not just killing teleri or Sindar but their own kind in the Assault on the Havens].

I will grant you that in the 'weakening of Morgoth' scenario, less damage may need to have been done to Arda. Although most of Beleriand was lost anyway.

I can however in no way justify the Noldor's rebellion, by saying 'at least they faught Morgoth for a long time.'

Quote:
So, to my mind, either the Noldor achieved much in weakening Melkor for the final assault by the host of Valinor, or the Valar seem a pretty uncaring bunch.
The first postulate has been addressed, and seen to my mind would be seen as a possiblity were it not for the quote below.

The second, is within the context of the Legendarium patently seen as unplausible.

We are privy to various councils of the Valar in the QS and more particularly in the 'Laws and Customs among the Eldar'/ 'Statute of Finwe and Miriel'. So we know that they are not uncaring, though one wonders at times about Mandos... What we do know is that they were in the case of when to deal with Morgoth, they were dealing with a large variety of factors, of which we do not know the full arguement, so therefore we can not seriously judge them as being wrong, there is no way to ascertain their motives.

As an addition to postulate in the Doom of Mandos comment above, I think, [and the following quote proves it] a point after the final offer of pardon is given upon the shores of Araman, that the valar were constrained by Eru to wait.

We read in the Silm [and in it's source text HoM-E V QS concl.~4 [p. 325 HB] the following:
Quote:
...hail thou .. the looked for that comest anawares, the longed for that comest beyond hope!
There we see that the valr had forknowledge of Earendil and were indeed waiting for him, as it was the key to the timing of the War of Wrath.

I think that once the Noldor [90%]refused the pardon, and went to M-E the die was cast, and due to Eru's will, known in more detail by the Valar themselves than the Prophecy of the North, the Doom of Mandos and greeting by Eonwe show, but still observable to us only as far as I know in those points, there could be no succour of the Noldor and the rest of M-E till the events, partially forseen in valinor, had played themselves out fully.

So the Noldor are hardly to be conratulated on the grand efforts they made. They did what any noble but fallen people would have done in similar circumstances [as witnessed by the Atani].

They were not 'instrumental' so much as filling an inevitable role, once the refused the pardon of the Valar.
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The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.
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