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davem · 02-11-2004, 04:13 AM

Frodo's dream of his journey to the Undying Lands occurs in the House of Tom Bombadil. Of course, Verlyn Flieger has put forward a different theory of Frodo's experiences of connecting with other times/places, based on the influence of Dunne's theories on time.

I'm not sure that the theory of the writer of the article are correct. I do, however feel that Bilbo & Frodo stand out from other hobbits, in their detatched lives. They are simply not as sociable. The question is to what extent the effect of the Ring on them reflects something of their author. In other words, why does Tolkien create an object - The Ring - which has that effect on them, makes them behave in that way? Do they speak for him, his perception of the world?

If we take AS, not as a 'disease' so much, but as a way of experienceing 'reality', detatchment, obsession with detail, creation of other/secondary realities, then do we find Bilbo & Frodo as reflections of Tolkien himself? Put aside for one moment the 'explanation' within the story for Bilbo & Frodo's state - posession of the Ring, & look at the characters that we have as 'heroes', they are simply not 'normal' Hobbits. There is a curious lack of emotional connection with other's on Frodo's part - both the BBC radio series & the movie have Frodo snapping & losing his temper with Sam, which are not present in the book. Neither Bilbo or Frodo marry, or have intimate relationships. Ok, The Ring affects them, but Tolkien did not have to make the Ring produce that effect. Frodo has a stronger emotional connection to the Ring, even to the Trees of Lorien, than he has to most of the people around him. How much of what he feels for Bilbo is a desire for a safe secure past, & how much is true 'love'?

I am struck by the way Frodo in particular, keeps himself apart, & what Tolkien is doing by giving us such a 'hero'. Tolkien was someone who did keep apart - though to a lesser extent, & significantly, the people who he was closest to (apart from Edith) were people who shared his temperament - Lewis, & Christopher. But he had few close connections with anyone else. He seemed quite intolerant of anyone who didn't share his values, & experienced jealousy of 'outsiders' who intervened (Charles Williams springs to mind). He strikes me as someone who would be quite hard work to be around, unless you shared his values & worldview.

02-11-2004, 04:13 AM	#6
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Frodo's dream of his journey to the Undying Lands occurs in the House of Tom Bombadil. Of course, Verlyn Flieger has put forward a different theory of Frodo's experiences of connecting with other times/places, based on the influence of Dunne's theories on time. I'm not sure that the theory of the writer of the article are correct. I do, however feel that Bilbo & Frodo stand out from other hobbits, in their detatched lives. They are simply not as sociable. The question is to what extent the effect of the Ring on them reflects something of their author. In other words, why does Tolkien create an object - The Ring - which has that effect on them, makes them behave in that way? Do they speak for him, his perception of the world? If we take AS, not as a 'disease' so much, but as a way of experienceing 'reality', detatchment, obsession with detail, creation of other/secondary realities, then do we find Bilbo & Frodo as reflections of Tolkien himself? Put aside for one moment the 'explanation' within the story for Bilbo & Frodo's state - posession of the Ring, & look at the characters that we have as 'heroes', they are simply not 'normal' Hobbits. There is a curious lack of emotional connection with other's on Frodo's part - both the BBC radio series & the movie have Frodo snapping & losing his temper with Sam, which are not present in the book. Neither Bilbo or Frodo marry, or have intimate relationships. Ok, The Ring affects them, but Tolkien did not have to make the Ring produce that effect. Frodo has a stronger emotional connection to the Ring, even to the Trees of Lorien, than he has to most of the people around him. How much of what he feels for Bilbo is a desire for a safe secure past, & how much is true 'love'? I am struck by the way Frodo in particular, keeps himself apart, & what Tolkien is doing by giving us such a 'hero'. Tolkien was someone who did keep apart - though to a lesser extent, & significantly, the people who he was closest to (apart from Edith) were people who shared his temperament - Lewis, & Christopher. But he had few close connections with anyone else. He seemed quite intolerant of anyone who didn't share his values, & experienced jealousy of 'outsiders' who intervened (Charles Williams springs to mind). He strikes me as someone who would be quite hard work to be around, unless you shared his values & worldview.