View Single Post
Old 11-05-2002, 08:48 AM   #15
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril

Thanks to all for the interesting replies! I like hearing your opinions; even more, I enjoy examples from the book(s), with quotes to illustrate the points. I would like to continue on that track, researching Tolkien's use of the word throughout LotR and his other works.

Thenamir, your comparison of Théoden and Denethor is quite fascinating; they died at almost exactly the same time, but the difference in their deaths was due to the presence of hope in the one and its absence in the other. Théoden's death was heroic and accomplished something positive for all of Middle-earth; Denethor's death was cowardly, almost fatal for Faramir and certainly detrimental for his people.

Lostgaeriel, you added to that by quoting Théoden's burial song - a wonderful use of the word 'hope'!

HerenIstarion, thank you for that great example from the story of Finrod and Andreth. The definitions of the two elvish forms of 'hope' are thoughtprovoking - I will certainly read that chapter of Morgoth's Ring as soon as I can. There seems to be a lot about 'hope' in it.

Thenamir and Gandalf the Grey, what an interesting connection between Narya and hope! You have me thinking about hope and fire (since Narya is the ring of fire), wondering about the implications. We do speak of (re)kindling hope, don't we?!

Yes, Carannillion, there is a lot of sadness and hopelessness throughout the book; I think it reflects Tolkien's own tendency to see the world in a depressing light. And yet, hopelessness does not triumph - hope prevails.

Keneldil, you mentioned Maedhros - I would be interested in knowing whether there is any use of the word 'hope' in connection with his story. We can assume that he did have it, yet it would be nice to see if Tolkien expressly says so.

littlemanpoet, thank you for those examples from Khazad-dum. I looked that passage up and found that Aragorn says both "What hope have we without you?" and "We must do without hope." Again, the word is connected with a person, the wearer of Narya!

I think we're on to something there - another personification of 'hope' in Gandalf! Whether by his personality, whether by virtue of Narya, or both, he is 'hope' for those whom he has come to help. He seems to have hope where none else does; when he speaks of Gollum to Frodo, he says that there is little hope of curing the evil part of him.
Quote:
Yet not no hope.
And at the Council of Elrond, Legolas said:
Quote:
Gandalf bade us hope still for his cure.
So far, one thing is clear: A person can embody hope and thus become hope for others. We see this especially in Aragorn, Gandalf and Sam, also in Théoden. I'm looking forward to continuing this fascinating discussion!
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote