05-03-2002, 12:58 PM
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#9
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Desultory Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat.....
Posts: 7,779
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Halfir
Quote:
Whether you've scored in the bull, or have misled us all by a thought-provoking but incorrect premise I don't know, but I very much liked your linking of the two groups of nine.
It's interesting to note that the number '9' is a particularly recurring one in the Eldar Eddas of Snorri Sturluson - with which Tolkien was very familair. Indeed, the dwarves and Gandalf come from the Voluspa- The Song of the Sybil , which is part of the Edda.
In the Havamal -The sayings of Har, there are nine lays of power; again in the Voluspa -nine worlds, and nine steps; and in The Runes Baldur hangs from Yggdrasil for 'nine nights long'.
Tolkien referred to the 'leaf mold of the mind' which stored and fertilized his creative ideas, and it is quite possible, that in writing of Boromir's downfall there is an echo - however faint, of the eclipse of Morgoth and his fall from grace, drawn from either conscious or subconscious remembrance.
As to your central question - could there be repsite or redemption for Tolkien's own Lucifer - I'm not sure.
In the Alunindale, when Melkor introduces discord into the Music of the Ainur, Iluvatar says:" Mighty are the Ainur,and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth,that ye may see what ye have done. And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite.For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful , which he himself hath not imagined." Insofar as Melkor is ultimately but the instrument of Iluvatar, then perhaps redemption is a possibility.
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I should have worded the question in a better way. I did not mean to emphasize any importance for the number '9'. What I was trying to think about, and I think you've understood it, is that with the redemption of Boromir as the one who provides the major disharmony in the Fellowship of the Ring, there could be a possibility for the redemption of Melkor. Boromir,as a mortal, it would seem to me, would necessarily have his downfall and epiphany in a much shorter span of time than would Melkor, an immortal being. & Melkor, or so it would seem to me, could never move completely beyond the design of Iluvator, because he is ultimately an instrument of the design and not the designer.
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Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.
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